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#21 Bebbe

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 07:04 PM

Sacrifice the non-believers! ^_^

Burn the infidels !

#22 UltimateRanger

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 08:02 PM

All hail Hostile
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#23 Dain Ironfoot

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 08:10 PM

Everyone glare at the person trying jump on the bandwagon! *glares*

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#24 Mathijs

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 09:07 PM

Burn the bandwagon!

No fuel left for the pilgrims


#25 lycan

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:06 PM

burn the ground :p

= easier death for the wagon and man ;)

#26 Dain Ironfoot

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:42 PM

Another one trying to join in! Lets burn him too!

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#27 Nertea

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:48 PM

*leaps atop the flaming wagon, screaming curses and waving a salad fork*

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#28 Hostile

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 02:52 AM

Don't make me call up a natural disaster or something.

*ground begins to rumble*


@Nertea "a salad fork?!"
LOL

#29 Rob38

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:39 AM

Ok, I have an issue that I feels needs to be addressed. Currently, the Hostee ranking system is chosen by team chamber members. My complaint is that many are not affected by the decisions made in the ranking system. I feel that I have no voice even though I'm a hosted member. I believe that the ones who are affected by the decisions should get some power in determining what the ranking system should be.

Also, I'm a little bit annoyed about the decisions made in the front page section. While the three big mods (RA, RJ, and SEE) get their own section and can post news whenever they want, the weekly hosted update gets shoved to the bottom many times (the newest update is not even on the front page anymore) I feel like there is becoming a larger seperation between the larger mods and the smaller ones.

Latly, I have been disappointed by the authors of the weekly update. It is often inconsistent in when it is released and there are often errors in it (I have reported 2 but there were many other minor issues in older updates I let be) If we are going to have this weekly mod update, than it's got to be a better sysem. No offense, but adummy has not done a mod update in a very long time and he's supposed to be the one who does that part.

These are some of the complaints I have for T3A. Let me know if you have any questions on the above area.

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#30 m@tt

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 11:49 AM

The hostee news system has only just started, so it has problems, and we are very conscious about the mod update being bumped down, and have been since before it was introduced. We have been discussing ways of keeping the mod update at the top for over a week now in the chamber, so it wont be a post whenever you want system, so just sit tight.

Edited by mh_gollum, 21 November 2007 - 01:54 PM.

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#31 Lauri

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 01:44 PM

And the reorgs.... well, we kinda don't have any influence ourself :p We say what we think when the issue come up, but mostly, the man with the new list has it somewhat what the rest of us thinks too, but of course, there is usually one mod (or more) we have to replace :dry:
So to say, we in the chamber decides it... It's because we have been granted access to the chamber... which comes with some goodies sometimes..

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#32 ched

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 03:45 PM

Ok, I have an issue that I feels needs to be addressed. Currently, the Hostee ranking system is chosen by team chamber members. My complaint is that many are not affected by the decisions made in the ranking system. I feel that I have no voice even though I'm a hosted member. I believe that the ones who are affected by the decisions should get some power in determining what the ranking system should be.


The hostee ranking system is being decided by the Chamber Member, some of which are hosted. Therefore, hostee do get their say in a way that's easy enough for us to deal with.
It would be far harder to implicate all of the hostees in the decision making process, not only in a matter of how many of you there are but also of the problem that the contestants cannot be the judges, for an evident conflict of interest is demonstrated here.

Also, I'm a little bit annoyed about the decisions made in the front page section. While the three big mods (RA, RJ, and SEE) get their own section and can post news whenever they want, the weekly hosted update gets shoved to the bottom many times (the newest update is not even on the front page anymore) I feel like there is becoming a larger seperation between the larger mods and the smaller ones.


As outlined, that system is very recent and we'd not foreseen all the issues that would come with it. We're currently discussing ways to solve it and let the mod update where it should be, as well as ways to let other mods post on the frontpage too and get the exposure they deserve.

Latly, I have been disappointed by the authors of the weekly update. It is often inconsistent in when it is released and there are often errors in it (I have reported 2 but there were many other minor issues in older updates I let be) If we are going to have this weekly mod update, than it's got to be a better sysem. No offense, but adummy has not done a mod update in a very long time and he's supposed to be the one who does that part.


Whilst adummy is probably far more competent than I am to post such news (the recent mistakes in the posts prove it), we work on T3A as part of a hobby and therefore are not always 100% available. adummy was having a hard time combining T3A and his personal life, and I'm sure you'll understand that RL comes first in such matters.


These are some of the complaints I have for T3A. Let me know if you have any questions on the above area.


Thanks a bunch for voicing them. Only through criticism can we move forward and solve the little things that we hate :p
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#33 Rob38

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 05:09 PM

The hostee ranking system is being decided by the Chamber Member, some of which are hosted. Therefore, hostee do get their say in a way that's easy enough for us to deal with.
It would be far harder to implicate all of the hostees in the decision making process, not only in a matter of how many of you there are but also of the problem that the contestants cannot be the judges, for an evident conflict of interest is demonstrated here.


I would have to disagree... I mean honestly how many hosted members are there? No more than 20. And I would have to diagree with your last sentence. I think the one's being affected should have the highest vote in the matter. Hosted members know how much work they put into their mod as well as how much others have in the hosted section. I really think it is an unfair system as there isn't a whole lot of other voices. Almost all of you (if not all) of the team chamber members are part of the three big mods, and there is absolutely no representation of the smaller mods. Sure, you may be concerned about bias if hosted members voted, but I truly think the hosted members here can put that aside and vote on what they feel have been the most impressive mods in the past months.

As outlined, that system is very recent and we'd not foreseen all the issues that would come with it. We're currently discussing ways to solve it and let the mod update where it should be, as well as ways to let other mods post on the frontpage too and get the exposure they deserve.

Thank you for looking into and addressing this issue :p

Whilst adummy is probably far more competent than I am to post such news (the recent mistakes in the posts prove it), we work on T3A as part of a hobby and therefore are not always 100% available. adummy was having a hard time combining T3A and his personal life, and I'm sure you'll understand that RL comes first in such matters.


Sure, I perfectlly understand that, but shouldn't there be another person to take over while another one is busy? Maybe a hosted member?

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#34 Solinx

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 10:40 PM

Sure, I perfectlly understand that, but shouldn't there be another person to take over while another one is busy? Maybe a hosted member?

We have. First in line would be Adummy, followed by Ched. From there we have no fixed person to take over, but it could have been me, 2playgames or pretty much any Team Chamber member. In any case, several of us have had some trouble to combine T3A with RL these last few days and not everything that was planned turned out to be possible for the persons involved in these plans.

As for the hosting list... Well, I'm not agreeing that all hostees should be allowed to have their influence in the ranking of the hostees list.

What I do agree with is that directly discussing the list in the Team Chamber gives the hostees who are team chamber members too much influence in the process. Which is why we normally don't do that.
This last list unintentionally became the sole exception to that rule. It should be noted that the final decision was not made by Team Chamber members, but still by the T3A staff.

Normally Team Chamber members and non-Team Chamber members alike can use whatever means they wish to state their oppinion, which the T3A staff members will take into consideration with the next listing. This doesn't happen often, but everyone is more than welcome to do so.

Furthermore I would like to say that the three top mods are not part of the hosting listing, which in theory would actually make the Team Chamber members from those mods very suitable judges.

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#35 Rob38

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:39 AM

We have. First in line would be Adummy, followed by Ched. From there we have no fixed person to take over, but it could have been me, 2playgames or pretty much any Team Chamber member. In any case, several of us have had some trouble to combine T3A with RL these last few days and not everything that was planned turned out to be possible for the persons involved in these plans.

What I'm trying to say is that it only takes 15-20 minutes max to write a mod update. I personally do not like the system because it seems that it is always being delayed or mistakes being made. May I attempt to do the mod update than? I keep close antention to all the hosted mods and I know I can produce the updates in a regular and correct manner.

As for the hosting list... Well, I'm not agreeing that all hostees should be allowed to have their influence in the ranking of the hostees list.


No offense, but I still strongly disagree with your statements. There needs to be some area where all hosted members can voice their opinion on the matter. Sure, I'm fine with the T3A staff making the final decision, but I don't get any voice until the decision has already been made. Maybe you should post a topic a week or two in advance so that the hosted community can voice their opinions on the matter. I think this would make things much more efficient and more will be satisfied with the outcome of the ranking system.

Furthermore I would like to say that the three top mods are not part of the hosting listing, which in theory would actually make the Team Chamber members from those mods very suitable judges.

Are they not hosted members too though? IMO, I'm feeling that the top 3 are gaining more and more power while the smaller mods are slowly gaining less. This is a site where we promote creativity and share knoledge/talent among each other. I'm feeling that more and more though, things are becoming more competitive and the whole community feel has weakened a bit. I feared this would happen when the mods began to become rated and a ranking system was put in place. I'm not saying this is a horrible thing, and in many ways, it's good. All I'm saying is that we should be very cautious about the gaining of influence and power. Having a place where all hosted members can voice their opinion on these matters would solve many of these issues.

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#36 Bart

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:48 AM

You are placing much too much value on the rankings. They don't have any real significance, they're just there to change the order in which hostee forums are listed once in a while.
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#37 ambershee

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 08:55 AM

Are they not hosted members too though?


See me with a hosted forum anywhere here :spam: ? Not everyone is a hosted member or from one of the 'top mods' as you'd put it.

#38 Solinx

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:43 PM

Rob, I think we misunderstood eachother on a few points. Most importantly, I was under the impression you wanted to allow the hostees to directly determine the new listing, while you were under the impression I don't want to hear what the hostees think about future listings.

Both thoughts are false.

Everyone is free to speak his or her mind about future mod listings. I do understand it is difficult, or more like impossible, to say when a new list will be put in place since this is done on an irregular basis. My proposal to solve this would be for us to give a week notice through the weekly mod update.

Then everyone will be able to speak their mind the newstopic. Whether there should be a separate topic for hostees I don't know. If someone feels there is a need for that, I won't stop any (T3A) hostee from posting one in the hostees only mod news forum.

Just know that T3A is our hobby. We will consider all suggestions, but won't go into discussion about all or perhaps any of them, we have other things to do in life. Like 2playgames said, the rankings aren't supposed to be a big deal.
Further, as you agreed, the final compilation is being done by the T3A staff. In other words, suggestions aren't binding votes.

Furthermore I would like to say that the three top mods are not part of the hosting listing, which in theory would actually make the Team Chamber members from those mods very suitable judges.

Are they not hosted members too though? IMO, I'm feeling that the top 3 are gaining more and more power while the smaller mods are slowly gaining less. This is a site where we promote creativity and share knoledge/talent among each other. I'm feeling that more and more though, things are becoming more competitive and the whole community feel has weakened a bit. I feared this would happen when the mods began to become rated and a ranking system was put in place. I'm not saying this is a horrible thing, and in many ways, it's good. All I'm saying is that we should be very cautious about the gaining of influence and power. Having a place where all hosted members can voice their opinion on these matters would solve many of these issues.

It is a shame the repositioning of the hostees has become such a competition.

Of course, we anticipated and actually aimed for a little bit of competition, but the main goal of relisting the hostees was to generate activity for all active hostees. Done by giving everyone a fair chance at being at the top by rotating positions based on their work effort. Simple rotation without ratings would have given everyone some time at the top, but we wanted to avoid having inactive projects at the top.

I understand your concern for the balance of powers. You should know that the top three are not the only Team Chamber members. Several months ago we invited 5 new members from our hosted projects to get more input from their point of view. Along with other members, such as Ambershee, they create enough balance to make sure multiple points of view are represented.

What I'm trying to say is that it only takes 15-20 minutes max to write a mod update. I personally do not like the system because it seems that it is always being delayed or mistakes being made. May I attempt to do the mod update than? I keep close antention to all the hosted mods and I know I can produce the updates in a regular and correct manner.

While Adummy was gone things haven't always gone as they should regarding the mod update, but now he has returned things should be back on track. Thanks for the offer though :spam:

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#39 Rob38

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 09:05 PM

See me with a hosted forum anywhere here ^_^ ? Not everyone is a hosted member or from one of the 'top mods' as you'd put it.

Could someone provide me a list of all the team chamber members? I think it is important to clearly define who is in it ;)

You are placing much too much value on the rankings. They don't have any real significance, they're just there to change the order in which hostee forums are listed once in a while.

Not really.... considering your judging work that people have put a lot of effort in, I think it is very important to have a fair and generally agreed upon ranking system.

My proposal to solve this would be for us to give a week notice through the weekly mod update.

That is all that I'm asking :)

If someone feels there is a need for that, I won't stop any (T3A) hostee from posting one in the hostees only mod news forum.

I will hold your word to that. Will do :)

Just know that T3A is our hobby. We will consider all suggestions, but won't go into discussion about all or perhaps any of them, we have other things to do in life. Like 2playgames said, the rankings aren't supposed to be a big deal.

I do too you know ;) I'm actually really busy with college and other outside activities, and modding is put on the lowest of priorities. But I do feel it is important to consider and discuss any and all suggestions made. Since you are all claiming to be part of the staff, than it should be your job to perform these basic tasks. I'm not asking to go into hour long discussions about it, but to really consider and talk about what I'm bringing up. To even suggest that you will not discuss about issues being made would be very disappointing for me.

Further, as you agreed, the final compilation is being done by the T3A staff. In other words, suggestions aren't binding votes.

No, but they should be highly considered ;)

It is a shame the repositioning of the hostees has become such a competition.

Of course, we anticipated and actually aimed for a little bit of competition, but the main goal of relisting the hostees was to generate activity for all active hostees. Done by giving everyone a fair chance at being at the top by rotating positions based on their work effort. Simple rotation without ratings would have given everyone some time at the top, but we wanted to avoid having inactive projects at the top.

I never said that the competition was bad, and I don't think it has become a major issue in itself. My main complaint all along had simply been the lack of not knowing who was rating it and how the decisions were being made. Also, I wanted the hostee members to have more of a voice in the decision making process.

I understand your concern for the balance of powers. You should know that the top three are not the only Team Chamber members. Several months ago we invited 5 new members from our hosted projects to get more input from their point of view. Along with other members, such as Ambershee, they create enough balance to make sure multiple points of view are represented.

Like I said above, could you please provide me a clear list of all the members? I think it is important for the community to know about this.

While Adummy was gone things haven't always gone as they should regarding the mod update, but now he has returned things should be back on track. Thanks for the offer though :)

Is he doing the upcoming mod update?

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#40 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 09:54 PM

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