27 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

http://edition.cnn.c...ctim/index.html

The 19-year-old victim was sentenced last year to 90 lashes for meeting with an unrelated male, a former friend from whom she was retrieving photographs. The seven rapists, who abducted the pair and raped both, received sentences ranging from 10 months to five years in prison.

Why does a rape victim get 200 lashes because she got raped.

Does anyone understand how much 200 lashes hurts the human body? Why, because she was a victim of rape? Does anyone notice that "they" as a couple were both raped. Man and the woman. So they were both raped by 7 men. And we should be complacent about this topic?

"After a year, the preliminary court changed the punishment and made it two to nine years for the defendants," al-Lahim said of the new decision handed down Wednesday. "However, we were shocked that they also changed the victim's sentence to be six months in prison and 200 lashes."

And the woman victim got 6 months in jail for being a victim of rape? Now let's talk sanctions, let's talk stop Saudia Arabia from pretending it's an ally against the war on terrorism. Who are we trying to kid?

The judges more than doubled the punishment for the victim because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media," according to a source quoted by Arab News, an English-language Middle Eastern daily newspaper.

Let us forbid ourselves from letting anyone know the injustice that is going on.

Judge Saad al-Muhanna from the Qatif General Court also barred al-Lahim from defending his client and revoked his law license, al-Lahim said. The attorney has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month.

So if you even defend a woman now your law license is removed. Sounds like we need to find new friends for the US and Europe.

Women are subject to numerous restrictions in Saudi Arabia, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and the need for a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote.

My god let me pull my heart out and lay it on the table. Why are we allowing women to be treated this way? Why are we accepting a lesser evil over another evil. In this day and age, do we still need to fight for womans rights to life?

This should already be assumed as true in a modern society. So why do we support such dictatorships as a nation named US, and all that goes with it? Why does Europe accept this and let it slide?

[Soul]

Yeah I saw this story on the BBC news site, it's pretty bad.

[Sigmar]

Makes me sick to think they are getting away with it. i mean, we should have invaded saudi arabia years ago because of the crimes the government has comitted.

[narboza22]

And what would the alternative be? Stop supporting the Saudis and run the risk of cutting of the flow of oil? Sure reality sucks, but reality is what it is. The world runs on oil ATM and until someone comes up with an alternative, the world is stuck with stuff like this.

Of course, someone could also decide to intervene, but who is going to do that? Everything the US does these days is condemned as imperialist expansion or some similar bullshit. Or maybe Europe like you mentioned, but the chances of them getting their act together long enough to accomplish anything is next to nothing. China and Russia both rival Saudi Arabia in terms of human rights abuses, so they sure as hell aren't going to involved.

In all honesty, the majority of people who complain about how the US turns a blind eye to this would instantly condemn any actions the US took to stop it. It wouldn't even have to be military intervention, just something that would cause a hiccup in the flow of oil.

And even in a perfect world where Europe was gung ho enough to leave their continent and the US was ready to abandon the Saudis, what would they do? Put sanctions on Saudi Arabia? That would hurt the rest of the world just as much as it would hurt the Saudis. Invade? That would only infinitely multiply the amount of extremist Muslims who have it out for us infidels. Maybe we would just hold a press conference and explain that how our Judeo-Christian values make us morally opposed to such actions and that we would really appreciate it if the Saudis would stop raping and whipping people. In which case the Saudis would say that they will consider the matter and review the case, which would simply take long enough for this story to be forgotten by the media.

You say that we live in a modern society where this should not be accepted. Well, the Middle East is not a modern society, and the same "not understanding the culture" that caused all of the problems in Iraq applies here. Yes this seems completely illogical and barbaric to us, but so does suicide bombing markets full of our own people.

[Sûlherokhh]

I am sick in my stomach. Need to digest that for a while.

[MSpencer]

You reap what you sow. The United States and United Kingdom have expressed nothing but the utmost support for the Saudi Arabian government, even if it is a cruel autocracy. It's unfortunate we so readily support a cruel, twisted religious dictatorship which doesn't believe in human rights to any extent, but nothing will ever be done about it. A war is inconceivable, the United States already tried that with Iraq and ended up putting a regime that will collapse within 6 months at the head of the state, surrounded of course by American soldiers and attack helicopters, and every indication of staying there for the foreseeable future. Saudi Arabia would be quite worse; the United States has provided military aid to them on one prominent occasion, has sold them weapons of all sort, has declared their full and utmost support for the regime on numerous occasions, and has done nothing to condemn even worse, more flagrant violations of basic United Nations guaranteed freedoms.

Saudi Arabia is one of the worst dictatorships on the planet, but somehow I think Mugabe's little Zimbabwe sort of beats them out on the international scale. Yes, a few lashes and a distorted view of justice is pretty bad, but there's worse. It's depressing, but you'll get over it and learn to love it, that's how modern democracies work; our friends are determined by who is most profitable, not by who is most correct.

Hmm... I could swear a few months ago, you were arguing for that doctrine Hostile...

[Ash]

While this is abhorrent stuff indeed, you'd only have to look back a couple hundred years to find the western world being every bit as bad. I also don't imagine it being a particularly good pretext for an invasion. There's been enough bad ones of those recently to last a lifetime.


I agree completely that this is stuff is abhorrent, and don't for one minute imagine that I do not. But surely it's one they can work out for themselves. Same should have gone for the Taliban and Saddam's regime, but it didn't. Their legislature and enforcement thereof is their own business. So too is the Saudi people's course of action regarding it. They could have a revolution or a coup, or they could up sticks and leave the country...oh wait, you'd be complaining about that too Hostile, since those women would then be stealing your jobs...

That part of the world is not ours, its people are not America's charge. While we may sit and think how ridiculous this injustice is, it is somehow normal to them as it was to Europe a few hundred years ago to subject women to the ducking stool accusing them of witchcraft (no trial, mind, not even an unfair one). How long ago was it women's suffrage came in? The allegedly equal rights we enjoy in the West today and take for granted weren't always there. Nor will the oppression in Saudi Arabia remain forever. They'll change of their own accord as and when their people see fit to do so. They do not need Americans to judge, intervene or "liberate" them.

[Casen]

Precisely why I hate Bush.

Saddam's regime was a fucking paradise compared to Saudi Arabia, we should have invaded Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.

Not saying Saddam was a great guy, but still.

[Cossack]

The basis behind American policy ever since WWII has been hypocrisy....

The United States government doesn't give a shit about human rights.

The problem is that we have no options.

So what if the general population wants the west to take action on Saud Arabia's brutal Islamic law? The left-wing parties we have seem to disagree with anything confrontational, and the right-wing parties only confront these brutalities if it suits their own selfish interests.

I am growing steadily more dissatisfied with the way the world is being run....

Edited by Cossack, 21 November 2007 - 12:42 AM.

[Casen]

One of the reasons I support Israel.

And so should every other liberal if we are going to fight Shariah law.

I wish I was dictator of the US, then things would be set straight...

[narboza22]

The basis behind American policy ever since WWII has been hypocrisy....

The United States government doesn't give a shit about human rights.

The problem is that we have no options.

So what if the general population wants the west to take action on Saud Arabia's brutal Islamic law? The left-wing parties we have seem to disagree with anything confrontational, and the right-wing parties only confront these brutalities if it suits their own selfish interests.

I am growing steadily more dissatisfied with the way the world is being run....

What general population wants to take action on the Saudis? Sure people think its terrible what's happening to that woman and her lawyer, and the countless other similar cases, but if you gave the average person the choice between 1) standing up for their ideals and doing something to change the Saudi's ways, which would destroy the flow of oil to the west and directly effective that average person's life in a negative way, or 2) that average person could simply stand by and watch it happen, while thinking its terrible, but not have their lives negatively effected, the average person would choose #2 because people look out for themselves first and foremost.

[Soul]

What general population wants to take action on the Saudis? Sure people think its terrible what's happening to that woman and her lawyer, and the countless other similar cases, but if you gave the average person the choice between 1) standing up for their ideals and doing something to change the Saudi's ways, which would destroy the flow of oil to the west and directly effective that average person's life in a negative way, or 2) that average person could simply stand by and watch it happen, while thinking its terrible, but not have their lives negatively effected, the average person would choose #2 because people look out for themselves first and foremost.

Human greed and selfishness at it's best .

[Hostile]

His point is you can't pressure them too much. Hard to apply pressure when the oil must flow. This gives the Saudies the bumper they need.

A twisted sort of a situation one must notice.

The United States government doesn't give a shit about human rights.~Cossack

I think this comment is not true. You may not be happy with the US gov, but hard to say they don't care for human rights. Really dude? Maybe a small (large) over generalization perhaps?

One cannot attack or destablize Saudi Arabia, because the alternative hiding in the background is Extremism. And if you think the current Saudi government is moderate compared to them. Yikes.

Not much to say there. Another qeustion of which evil is lesser. While still maintaining the flow of the "spice"

IF God exists, he must have a great sense of humour. To have deposited a greater portion of the worlds oil reserves in such a place as the middle east. That irony alone (almosts) proves thier is a God with a sense of humor.

Or He doesn't and it just happened to show up there while simutaniously being occupied by the most ridiculous regimes since colonial europe.

All God jokes aside, wouldn't the world be better if the oil was located in a more stable place like, Mount Krakatoa. Even that seems more stable than the middle east.

[Cheshire Fox]

There's an old Jewish joke abuot an old man that curses everytime Moshe's name is mentioned. When the Rabbi confronts him after mincha, the old man tells him: "If he had just turned right!"

My dad went to Saudi Arabia on a business trip not too long ago. One of the questions asked upon entering the country was what one's religion was. When he replied "I'm Jewish" they marked his passport with "Infidel" or something similar.

I'm not such a fan of the place. This really does make me sick. But thanks to a greed - driven two party system, we won't do jackshit!

[Sigmar]

The real problem about the courtry is its king. the one behind the laws.

[narboza22]

I cannot believe headlines like these:
http://www.foxnews.c...,312768,00.html
http://www.foxnews.c...,289317,00.html

Does the media really have nothing better to do than keep stats on crap like this?


edited for spelling

Edited by narboza22, 25 November 2007 - 09:13 PM.

[Soul]

I cannot believe headlines like these:
http://www.foxnews.c...,312768,00.html
http://www.foxnews.c...,289317,00.html

Does the media really have nothing better to do than keep stats on crap like this?


edited for spelling

I agree .

[Hostile]

I cannot believe headlines like these:
http://www.foxnews.c...,312768,00.html
http://www.foxnews.c...,289317,00.html

Does the media really have nothing better to do than keep stats on crap like this?


edited for spelling

The question is how do you stop nations like this?

[narboza22]

Wait for the oil to run out or come up with a new way to fuel the modern world.

[Sigmar]

The question is how do you stop nations like this?

1. a coup

2. rebellion

3. invasion(yes, i know this one would be the least choice)

4. pressure from concern allies

EDIT: fix it a bit.

Edited by Sigmar, 25 November 2007 - 10:53 PM.