15 replies to this topic

[Valter]

You mentioned earlier that the space stations in the starfighter-mod were never changed from the original vanilla versions; hence the reason why space stations are easily destroyed.

My quesion is, are you making any changes to the space stations for your full release? For example: armament changes, compliment changes, etc.

Edited by Valter, 21 November 2007 - 05:41 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

I'm still working out the details. This is probably the last major change that I have to make, so I don't know yet, but I'm leaning towards stripping their armament and complements and re-pricing them. The big problem from the mini-mod was that they didn't have proper armor types, so there was no damage reduction.

[Ghostrider]

Do you mean they will now be totally defenseless orbital construction facilities, and you have to rely on the golans for defence only?

I think it makes sense for them to have SOME rudumentary defenses.

I don't think they are that bad. The concussion missiles at least give you a bit of a headache, and I think the turbos could be a bit more powerful, but they are ok-ish.

It all depends on what you think they are for. Clearly they are not battlestations, but they look like orbital construction facilties with basic defenses.

This seems ok.

I also like the upgrades you can purchase when under attack. Will you keep these at least?
What did you have in mind instead!

Edited by Ghostrider, 22 November 2007 - 09:52 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

I'm just not terribly happy with the vanilla stations and I don't really have any other alternatives as far as models go. Ideally, I want something like this or this (both unarmed).

[sideshow_bob]

what kinds or garrisons will those stations have?

[Valter]

So basically you're going to wait until a later release before you change the space stations?

[Phoenix Rising]

I honestly don't know yet.

[Ghostrider]

If you found the models, how would you incorporate gun emplacements, and shown in the link on the repair yard?
I appreciate the desire to have realistic repair yards that are just shielded and armor plated, but how do you plan to devise defense systems for them as just having the Golan platforms is expensive and limited, while you run into massive problems trying to incorporate 'personalised' defenses, such as gun emplacements, laser satellites and so on.

While the vanilla stations are not perfect, I think they give a reasonable range of defensive and offensive armaments, that effectively simulates the unique layout and defenses for each space station. While caonoical space stations will be customised and unique to each planet, how in hell do you plan to turn this into game mechanics - without some nerd like me spamming gun emplacements all over the place and making it defended to the point when you couldn't actually build ships becuase the defenses get in the way!

For example, in Thrawn 2, the rebels attack one of the imperial shipyards (Bilbringi??), and Thrawn gets the General in Charge to totally redesign the entire defense network. You couldn't have a system this flexible.

My view of the vanilla stations has always been to treat them as a resonable simulation of a complete shipyard, and not worrying too much about the actual placement of shield generatiors and weapon systems.
You know, like a statistical average of defenses rather than a real space station!

Lets face it the shipyards at Kuat are going to have a completely different look to the ones at say, Bilbringi or Mon Calamari, and they won't be based on a single complex - but you can't possibly come up with a uniqe construction yard design PER PLANET!

I think that to introduce a 'new spaceship construction concept' would run into massive problems with the original EAW code, would be cumbersome and not-user-friendly to use and would waste too much of your time better spent on other things!

However, I think that what you have done with the other models could be adapted to space stations as follows:
Modify shield strengths and armor plate and downgrade some weapon systems.
Modify the number and type of weapon systems - I.e. light or heavy, quads or dual etc.

I think the real problem with the vanilla stations is that they try to defend against EVERYTHING, and have all weapon systems, which give no real protection and is decidedly odd

I think they would be much better designed if the defenses were aimed at particular threats only.
For example:
Level 1 and 2: Designed against starfighter and corvette only
Level 3: Protect vs Starfighter with heavy corvette escort
Level 4 and 5: Designed against capital attack with heavy starfighter support.

So - increase shielding on all stations, decrease the range of armaments.
Level 1 and 2 get laser defences only (possibly with concussion missile launchers only)
Level 3 adds some turbos into the mix
Level 4 and 5 get heavy turbos to simulate the layered defenses from outer perimiter to fixed central emplacements, together with heavy proton launchers to kill capitals.


I look forward to what you end up doing, so keep us posted!

Edited by Ghostrider, 26 November 2007 - 11:13 AM.

[sideshow_bob]

just hope that he doesn't hold the mod back longer for them, instead make a patch

[Phoenix Rising]

I appreciate the desire to have realistic repair yards that are just shielded and armor plated, but how do you plan to devise defense systems for them

Well, starships cost no galactic population .

I think the real problem with the vanilla stations is that they try to defend against EVERYTHING, and have all weapon systems, which give no real protection and is decidedly odd

I think that's my main problem with them. That and the "real" armaments aren't stated anywhere . EaW conversions are messy, but I'll do it here just to say I tried:

Starbase Level 1

150 SBD
800 RU

6 turbolaser cannons
6 heavy laser cannons
3 (24) heavy concussion missile launchers

Starbase Level 2

375 SBD
1100 RU

12 turbolaser cannons
12 heavy laser cannons
3 (24) heavy concussion missile launchers
3 (15) heavy proton torpedo launchers

Starbase Level 3

1000 SBD
1500 RU

12 turbolaser cannons
4 turboion cannons
12 heavy laser cannons
6 (24) heavy concussion missile launchers
6 (15) heavy proton torpedo launchers

Starbase Level 4

2250 SBD
2500 RU

18 turbolaser cannons
8 turboion cannons
18 heavy laser cannons
6 (24) heavy concussion missile launchers
6 (15) heavy proton torpedo launchers

Starbase Level 5

4500 SBD
3500 RU

30 turbolaser cannons
12 turboion cannons
18 heavy laser cannons
9 (24) heavy concussion missile launchers
9 (15) heavy proton torpedo launchers

So the armaments aren't terrible, it's the placement of the hardpoints that seems to be worse. And that I can't change until Mike releases the ALO importer... I don't know, I might just scrap this change until later.

[Pred the Penguin]

Maybe you can connect the the repair yard model to the space station.

[slornie]

For the Empire at least, its a shame there isnt a model for the Ubiqtorate Base

[Phoenix Rising]

Do we even know what that looks like? But, yeah, Tangrene is in the mod...

[slornie]

I dont know if it was ever described. But there doesnt seem to be one design for it anyhow, since the one at Yaga Minor was of an "unusual design" with the docking facility extending from the base proper to allow for high level civilian visitors.

[Phoenix Rising]

Oh, Yaga Minor is too, true. I wonder if it's in a comic adaptation anywhere.