53 replies to this topic

[Copaman]

Read this First

Dumb idea, in my opinion.

But... It got me to thinking based on things that have happened in my life. Where is the line drawn between abuse and parenting?

When I was about 7, I gave my then-4-year-old sister a small plastic ring, with a diameter of no more than 1cm. She consequently took it and shoved it up her nose so far that my mother had to take her to the doctor's office to get it removed. I was spanked repeatedly (8 or so times) as hard as my father could possibly swing. Is that abuse? Or was it just teaching me a lesson from parent to child?

The day of New Year's Eve, which was this past monday. I was going snowboarding, and I had just found $15 on the floor. I picked it up. When asked if I had taken it, I fessed up and gave it back to my mom & dad. After screaming at me, and my honest speach of "I Don't Know," my dad lifted me by my shirt, slammed me against the wall, and then boxed my ears when I tried to gargle out a "You are choking me with my own shirt." Was that abuse? Where is the line?

Edited by Copaman, 03 January 2008 - 05:19 PM.

[Ash]

How else does one discipline their child? One cannot reason with an average six-year-old. If they've done wrong, what can a parent actually do to punish them? Send them to their room? Oh big deal, there's TOYS in there!

Also put it this way. After you got smacks across the backside, did you give your sister shit she could choke on again? Ok you prolly wouldn't have anyway in that instance, but did you do anything you got spanked for a second/third time?

Ok the location of the spanking is important - backside/legs/back of hand is acceptable, anywhere else is not since could cause lasting damage.

I am fully in favour of parents being allowed to spank their children to discipline them. It hasn't done any of them any harm. But only the parents. Schools...no, since you might have one cunt of a teacher who just doesn't like you and ends up beating you black and blue because they just don't like you.

Abuse would qualify as beating your child, with a strap or a belt or other such object, or as doing it ridiculously, excessively, or for every little minor niggle.

[Copaman]

Well put.

I, too, am in favor of parents being able to physically discipline their children... but not for dumb shit. I gave my sister a piece of a toy. SHE was the one who didn't have the sense to not put it up her nose. Why punish one child for giving something to the other, when the other puts their life in danger? Granted, she was 4, but still. I was hit when I was 4 too.

Maybe this is just some corrupted rant that I want to discuss with people, maybe I'm just complaining about how I feel that my sister is the favored one in the family, but still. I'd really like to know where the line is.

[Romanul]

Well if we speak of abuse you should know that the worst punishment are in my country.
The poorest people have to walk on the streets without shoes,have no money,eat from garbage cans and so on...

[Soul]

I think parents should be able to spank there kid, but to an extent, like depending on what they did and how hard said parent actually spanks them.

There are plenty of factors to think about in this situation imo.

[Cheshire Fox]

I am quite proud of the progressive strides my state has taken forwards. I find it very comforting to able to say, when people bash on the US, well I'm from Massachusetts, we're actually not crazed conservatives here. Gay marriage is legal. But this is just idiocy. I am sick to HELL with incompetent parents who let there children run around breaking shit and screaming, and more problematic and dangerous things (ie pulling fire alarms in public places) and refusing to do anything because of their lack of ability to even say NO. And occasionally, there comes a point where the child just needs a good smack on the rear. Simple as that. Young children are not as developed and don't entirely have the same thinking abilites as us, and sometimes pain is the only way to get a point across. The key is moderation. My parents spanked me when I was younger, but never really hit me, never even smacked me across the face and I bear no grudge against them while still being decently well behaved. They also only hit me when I being a real pain in the ass.

Now for instance what you're dad's done to you, Copa, it taking it way too far. It's one thing to inflict moderate pain to get a point across, another to use serious violence without even having a point to back. I mean getting your ears boxed, that is abuse. Do that too often and you can really get pretty messed up, in the physical sense. A spanking's not really hurting anyone. That is, and that's where the line is, whether or not there's gonna be lasting physical effects, ie bruises, hearing loss, broken bones, burns, cuts etc. So yeah, I'd call that abuse.

[Tom]

I never had this and I think i turned out fine My brother however has a different view. If my parents argue with him he loses it. I recall a time when my brother had a fight with my dad because my dad slapped him around the back of the head, but oh well, no one was seriously hurt.

I think its ok to smack children, but not in a way that causes serious pain. Maybe a single smack to the behind to say pack it in. There are otherways to discipline children. Education is one way but also when a kid plays up teach them consequences, not just smack them. If they play up conviscate a toy or object from them for a day or two. Its another way to learn. Also makes them appreciate material objects more. Limit pocket money/allowance or ground them is another way.

[narboza22]

From my point of view, you should never hit your kids. It will come back to you if you do. My uncle and aunt hit their kids(ages 3 and 7 IIRC) and those kids are the worst behaved kids I have ever seen. In addition to not controlling the kids, my aunt and uncle have very little respect from the rest of my family anymore. Someone said you cannot reason with a child. I disagree. My dog knows right from wrong, and I never had to hit him in order for him to learn. Surely kids are at least as reasonable. If you have to punish them, then don't let them watch TV, or don't let them eat dessert for a week. There are plenty of ways to discipline kids without teaching them that violence is the answer. I think our society is already violent enough without having to beat our kids at home.

[Soul]

Narboza makes a good point.

[Beowulf]

Narboza makes a good point.

I disagree. It's not violence to discipline a kid with a smack to the behind. I got it plenty as a kid and I'm not the least bit fucked up. Hell I got it with all kinds of stuff - belts, meter sticks, plastic cookware, you name it, my mom, and dad, whacked me with it at one point. I stopped doing stupid shit after getting whacked since it hurt, and that really gets your point across. But to call that violent? Depends on who you ask.

You can deny things, try "timeout" or any other bullshit technique you want but in the end the kid will find a way to circumvent the system and get what he wants anyway but a good smack to the ass always works. It never fails... unless the kid is a real bratty son of a bitch.

Edited by Beowulf, 04 January 2008 - 03:24 AM.

[Sigmar]

Narboza makes a good point.

Yes, he does indeed. discipline has to have restrictions and consequentences to parents if and when the line is crossed when it comes to hitting. im totally against spanking and only causes more problems on childrens. im in favor of the state getting more involed in protecting children from closed doors.

Edited by Sigmar, 04 January 2008 - 03:27 AM.

[Beowulf]

Yes, he does indeed. discipline has to have restrictions and consequentences to parents if and when the line is crossed when it comes to hitting. im totally against spanking and only causes more problems on childrens. im in favor of the state getting more involed in protecting children from closed doors.

Oh please. It's attitudes like these that create bitch ass parents who can't control their children. Grow a pair, smack your kids. It's not going to fuck them up.

[Sigmar]

I can not be sure if it happens. but remember, not all kids turn out the same from spanking, it can have negitive effects as well.

[Beowulf]

Perhaps but it takes more than just spanking to cause any sort of emotional damage.

[Sigmar]

Either way. in many years, the cops always find cases of child abuse due to not knowning what goes on in the family household. you see, if abuvise parents keep thinking they can get away with their actions, then what point would their be if we put certin laws and they wont even follow it? the law is brought down by making spanking illgel in order for them to get the message. i think people in future times would think this was a hrash choice. but it was for the protection of our generation.

[narboza22]

If you cannot solve problems with words and have to resort to physical means to communicate with people, then you should not have children. While I agree that parents have to be parents, and not friends, if you use violence to teach/control/discipline/whatever your child, then you are sending a terrible message to your kid. Sure, smacking a kid might get him to never draw on the wall again, and you say that it won't cause the kid any problems. I disagree. For the rest of his life, that kid will associate messing up with getting hit. Is that really what you want him to think? I would rather have a kid who is willing to come clean about his mistakes because he knows he won't get his ass kicked for it. You can fix crayon marks on a wall in about 30 seconds. People with abusive parents can go to therapy for years and still be messed up for the rest of their lives.

Look at it this way, if you hit someone in public, you can go to jail for assault or battery or whatever, so why on earth should it be ok for you to hit a child? Its also illegal for other adults to hit your child(ie. no corporal punishment in schools), so again, why should it be ok for you to hit your kid? I mean, if I had a kid, or hell, even my little brother for example, and I saw someone hit him, I would flip out.

I was reading something about this in a magazine(at the dentist, no idea what magazine it was) recently and it talked about parenting with a "carrot and stick" method. IMO, it should be a "carrot or no carrot" method. Good behavior should be rewarded, and bad behavior should be punished by sanctions, for lack of a better word, not by physical force.

[Tom]

Instead maybe the state has no right to dictate how people can bring up their kids, yet if people in the community think some kid is being abused they should confront it. Not that anyone has the balls to be a human being nowadays.

[Blodo]

I'm with Fenny on this matter. Hitting a kid for no or a miniscule reason can qualify as child abuse, but it's necessary to sometimes spank a kid to get a particular point across. Lets take a rather severe example: The kid steals cash from your wallet, and you know about it. The first time it happens you can talk it out. The second time however there should be consequences, the kid was warned the previous time and decided to try his luck again and that means words are not powerful enough in this particular situation. The fact that you spank your kids does not necessarilly mean that you use violence everywhere in life.

Also I find it sad that a state that identifies itself as "free" interferes in matters such as parental upbringing. For centuries parents used discipline alongside rewards to school their kids, but only nowadays do we get really messed up teens without no sense of authority. I see this and the dumb political correctness thing we have today connected.

[Sigmar]

Instead maybe the state has no right to dictate how people can bring up their kids, yet if people in the community think some kid is being abused they should confront it. Not that anyone has the balls to be a human being nowadays

Well, most of the time the community does not act when it's really needed. what if, what some would thought was abuse. they think its just discipline. and later, it turns out to be abuse and some would still not act because of that "its none of our business" junk. well, look at it this way. the state is not going to be like that and instead, do what the community should have done. confront the parents and hand out the punishment for the crime. remember, the law is still fresh, in a few years people might think differently about this and maybe will stop fighting it. the other people dealt with it in that list of countires that banned spanking, so can we.

[Beowulf]

If you cannot solve problems with words and have to resort to physical means to communicate with people, then you should not have children.

So you're saying anyone who's ever spanked a kid should never have sired any children? You, my friend, are full of shit.

While I agree that parents have to be parents, and not friends, if you use violence to teach/control/discipline/whatever your child, then you are sending a terrible message to your kid. Sure, smacking a kid might get him to never draw on the wall again, and you say that it won't cause the kid any problems. I disagree. For the rest of his life, that kid will associate messing up with getting hit. Is that really what you want him to think?

YES! I want my kid to know that there are consequences for messing up! If you don't discipline your children, they grow up thinking that they can't get in trouble and will be MORE likely to do something stupid than ones who got a smack to the butt.

I would rather have a kid who is willing to come clean about his mistakes because he knows he won't get his ass kicked for it. You can fix crayon marks on a wall in about 30 seconds. People with abusive parents can go to therapy for years and still be messed up for the rest of their lives.

I would too but most kids just are going to lie to avoid getting punished, even if it's a timeout or some other weak bullshit. That's just how most kids are.

Look at it this way, if you hit someone in public, you can go to jail for assault or battery or whatever, so why on earth should it be ok for you to hit a child?

I just love fallacious arguments like these. It all depends on how it's done. Should a parent haul off and flat out deck their kid? Of course not but I do not see the problem with a swat to butt and some quick stern talk. That'll keep the kid in line.

Its also illegal for other adults to hit your child(ie. no corporal punishment in schools), so again, why should it be ok for you to hit your kid?

Your parents brought you into this world, they feed, shelter and clothe you for free and they cannot administer a spanking? Oh puh-lease.

I mean, if I had a kid, or hell, even my little brother for example, and I saw someone hit him, I would flip out.

Another fallacious argument. Parents and family do not equal random people on the street.

the other people dealt with it in that list of countires that banned spanking, so can we.

It shouldn't even be an issue. This stupid ban is a byproduct of psychiatrists who don't know a goddamn thing and have never had children of their own.