53 replies to this topic

[duke_Qa]

Beowulf, no offense but you sound a bit like someone with Stockholm Syndrome.


personally i have never been hit by my father, but i sure had alot of fear for him sometimes. one of the problems with hitting children to discipline them is that they will either take it in a "positive" matter and not require too much of it, or they will immunize and become psychopaths that doesn't fear danger like normal people.

The threat of violence is quite often the most effective way to scare someone, because their imagination will make vivid pictures in their heads that quite often hits just the right nerves. but if they experience it all the time its nothing more than a way of life, and its effects stops working.


here's a good example from me. i was around 5-6 when i saw a skull in some science-book, and i found it incredibly nasty. i didnt want to look at it again and made a point out of it to my mother and my big sister was probably around and overheard that. that night i got an ear-infection and i was in quite a bit of pain. my sister had a bed in the same room at that time and in the end she got so pissed she threatened to take out the science book and push the skull-pictures into my face for the rest of the night. that certainly hit some nerves in my brain, as the room was completely dark and i was in a pretty delusional state at the moment because of the pain in the ear. i think i kept shut the rest of that night imagining that skeleton in my head, probably much worse than it actually was.

Basically, that burned a great phobia into my brain, which was pretty intense. whenever i came over a skull, i totally panicked and barely could stay in the room with it. i stapled pages in my schoolbooks with skeletons on it together so that i couldn't open them by accident. got a bit of heat from others in the class about it at times, but that was pretty minor. heh, i can remember i dreaded going to the next level school because i knew that there was a 1:1 sized skeleton in the science rooms there somewhere.


Anyway, that went away during puberty somehow, probably a combination of exposure and interest in drawing. the moral of the story though, is that its quite easy to put irrational fears into small children as long as you let their imaginations take care of the worst. but psychological abuse is just as bad as physical if used in the wrong intent. the fear of your parents ire is most likely more effective than the actual ire in the long run. and because parents can't always be angry, it balances itself out in the long run.

parents who constantly threatens a child and never shows it any compassion are not good parents.

another example that might hit a note: psychological reprimands requires psychological compassion to neutralize, something which is pretty normal. physical reprimands would in theory require "physical compassion" to neutralize the damage it did. but the very fact that the sort of "physical compassion" I'm thinking about here does not go too well together with children WHATSOEVER.


(hehe, that should hit some repulsion-notes in someone's brain...oh the reply is still open...i shouldn't have written that...)

[Sigmar]

Offtopic: Wow, i never heard of such a thing. i see that alot and not even knowing.

Anyway. i think duke has a point as well(even though i was kinda stumped ). Stockholm Syndrome is kinda like being a slave, but correct me if im wrong or brought up a bad term for it.

Im think the law is the start of something good. look at it as zero tolerance for physical punishment.

Edited by Sigmar, 05 January 2008 - 01:55 AM.

[Beowulf]

Beowulf, no offense but you sound a bit like someone with Stockholm Syndrome.

How do you figure? It wasn't dangerous, nor was it a threat to my personal safety.

Im think the law is the start of something good. look at it as zero tolerance for physical punishment.

Which is why we have unruly children in the first place.

[Bebbe]

One should never hit a children. Go watch Supernanny or something.

[Spectre]

I am neutral about this, but Copaman, why did your dad slam you against the wall and started to choke you?
my dad uses a different method, he most of the time uses his hand, but in rare situations he uses a belt , but my mom, different story her method is to ground me and keep me from playing video-games, PC, and going outside..

i have had one real suspesious situation, it was around when i was around 8 my brother started to run down a hall, ran into our living room (with also a PC and recliner) and slip and rambed into one of the wheels and started to gush blood from right above his left brow so he started to scream and i ran over to aid him and my mom came in as soon as i did, so she thought i did it, so she dragged me by the collar (also choking me kinda) and started to beet the shit outta me, then ran out and closed the door, later i had to tell my mom that my dumbass brother did it, doesn't that sound like abuse? and the most suprising thing was i never got an apology from her.

Edited by General Jenkins, 20 January 2008 - 09:52 AM.

[Mathijs]

Slamming your kid against a wall and choking it is abuse, not parenting.

[Duke]

One should never hit a children. Go watch Supernanny or something.

Bebbe brings a good point here. I've watched those programs from time to time....not overly intentionally but hey - there was nothing else on (the fact that they always show some of the most ludicrus familys ever is irrelevant)

There are various, well... techniques that parents can exploit other than just a "kick up the arse" to discipline their child. There are many reasons why this is doesn't happen such as naivity, generationalism or just laziness.

Here in New Zealand recently, around middle of last year our government passed legislation to make forcibly hitting a child to discipline (I forget the proper terms) illegal. This caused some fairly large protest marches (largely religiously driven but we won't go there) and national media polls saying that over 70% of people disagreed with it or something.

Personally I think that the parents should have the right to discipline their children as they see fit. But if they are obviously going too far then someone in authoirity needs to draw a good line where any bastard that crosses it will get done for.

The problem with a bill like the one I mentioned before is average Joe Bloggs. Not the higher or lower classed people just your average Joe who's married, has 2.5 children, loves his family and smacks his kids when they disobey him or do something they shouldn't. He would never hurt his little girl intentionally but sometimes he just gets a little carried away (does that make him a criminal?). Joe's only really aware of 2 types of discipline, he can smack them. Or he can send them to their rooms.

Maybe we need to focus on educating parents rather than locking them up as soon as we can.

[Cheshire Fox]

I feel like the purpose of those laws is largely a reminder to keep people in check. It's like the drinking age, no one really expects parents/cousins/friends/whoever else not give their kids alcohol, it's more a reminder that they shouldn't do it in excess. The same applies here.

[Sigmar]

Fox brings up a very good point. if parents are kept in check. then their be less and less child abuse cases and if they do want that. tough, the law should be passed so it can be stoped. cause do you know how many abusive parents get away with their crimes? alot, and they should have been punished.

[some_weirdGuy]

a smack on the bum is discipline, attacking a child is not


some parents might get carried away with punishment, and that is not ok, when your young you dont think like an adult, so sometimes a smack on the bottom is in order, but things like hitting them with objects or other forms of assault are not ok



i think i good way to stop a child from doing something would be to act really pissed off, when my dad gets pissed at something (maybe he is fixing the car, or computer, or whacks his thumb with a hammer) he can be pretty scary, i know that he isn't angry at me, and i know that he wouldn't hurt me, but its still scary to be around him, so right now i think that would been a good way to stop a kid doing something bad, make them miss out on something, and act really pissed off for a while


also, it depends on the kid, some don't really care, like when i was little, i wouldn't eat vegies, or even proper meat, and many nights i would go without dinner as i wouldn't eat it, no matter how hard my parents tried to make me, i missed out on computer games, ect for more then a year, and still that didn't stop me

of coarse eventually i came around, but im just making a point, you have to find something that will work, obviously making me miss out on dinner cause i wouldn't eat it didn't work very well, maybe if my parents had found some other way it might have worked, but as luck had it i grew out of it.

[Sigmar]

I think today, the government should get tougher on abusive parents. if we let them get away with all their acts, it will just repeat with their children and grandchildren. this totalitarian way parents are has gone long enough, their just small dictators-in-traning how need some hard time so the nation can be a much better place, its al about respect, if you dont respect a child. how will you expect to get any in return if you dont deserve it?

[Beowulf]

I hate to burst your bubble, but that's what parents are - dictators. You can't tell me your parents let you have a say in, well, anything unless they ask you specifically for your opinion. It's meant to be that way in the first place. I mean, fuck... a lot of good, decent parents get more shit from crybaby psychologists and crybaby parenting groups for this kind of thing. That is not fair.

I was really hoping for a glimmer of intelligence but no. What do we get? Massachusetts coming up with another crazy, over the top law. YAY FOR STUPID PEOPLE!

Next thing you know, damn good parents who raised excellent children will be arrested. Ditch this bullshit.

[Blodo]

Government shouldn't pretend to know how to parent children better than their own parents. It's like those greenpeace maniacs, it almost looks as if it's all in good fate but in reality it's still bullshit.

[Sigmar]

Government shouldn't pretend to know how to parent children better than their own parents. It's like those greenpeace maniacs, it almost looks as if it's all in good fate but in reality it's still bullshit.

You do bring a point to it. but lets look at it this way. the government, nor people close to faimlies should not pretend that child abuse is not rampent, but they would just be lying to themselves about parents being perfect and child abuse not being a problem. but it is and actions are being taken to counter it, and when they are about to. people start whining about it.

Edited by Sigmar, 02 February 2008 - 04:12 AM.

[Cheshire Fox]

I really think people are reading this law way too seriously. You act as if because of this law, no one will ever spank their child again. Marijuana is illegal here, but does that stop anyone who wants to from smoking it? Does it make it a serious crime? It's more to discourage the practice in excess than to actually completely ban it.

Edited by Cheshire Fox, 02 February 2008 - 05:27 AM.

[Beowulf]

You do bring a point to it. but lets look at it this way. the government, nor people close to faimlies should not pretend that child abuse is not rampent, but they would just be lying to themselves about parents being perfect and child abuse not being a problem. but it is and actions are being taken to counter it, and when they are about to. people start whining about it.

No one's denying child abuse isn't a problem. I doubt anyone here would deny that. But my main point is that spanking is not abusive. And I know you'll immediately scream BUT IT CAN BE right in my ear like I've never heard that before.

I really think people are reading this law way too seriously. You act as if because of this law, no one will ever spank their child again. Marijuana is illegal here, but does that stop anyone who wants to from smoking it? Does it make it a serious crime? It's more to discourage the practice in excess than to actually completely ban it.

The fact it's even there is reason alone to irritate me.

[Hostile]

So these far left people in Massachusettes want to protect the children from parental spanking but yet are pro choice resulting in 18,000 abortions a year in the US. Does that make any sense to anyone?!

[Cheshire Fox]

Yeah, yeah it does. One has been born to parents who made a decision: I will nurture this child, and I will raise it in a safe environment so that it can properly function in this society. The other said: I am not going to be able to raise this child. This child will ruin my relationships and screw me over for the rest of my life. At this stage in my life, I am not capable of raising this child and I do not feel comfortable handing something of my blood into the hands of strangers where it may very well grow up to be miserable and abused by parents who do not understand the difference between and acceptable smack on the bum and a vicious beating.

[Mathijs]

So these far left people in Massachusettes want to protect the children from parental spanking but yet are pro choice resulting in 18,000 abortions a year in the US. Does that make any sense to anyone?!

Yes, it makes perfect sense to me.

[Hostile]

Give the child up for adoption...

Since when does shoving a vacuum up a womans vagina and sucking out the proto-person seem humane? It's quite selfish to be honest. If I commit a crime, even by accident, I go to jail. So if you get pregnant you pay the price. If you can't take care of it, than go see the REALLY long list of people wanting to adopt new born children.

A partial birth abortion is when you pull out the nearly birthed child and insert a tube into it's head and suck out it's brains. Than they remove the body.

http://www.nrlc.org/...thers_Place.htm Snap brain stem method
http://www.nrlc.org/...th_Abortion.jpg Suck out brains method

Now take a good look at this link and understand my point of view. This particular method actually uses clips to snap the brain stem of the baby while it's being unaturally "pulled" from the womb.

Imagine that horror. And chances are, wherever you might be, some doctor is performing this and calling it "a medical procedure"

So you far left people who claim to be in charge of saving humanity, protecting the children, typical tree fuckers, and genuine hypocrits about the environment. I have have no sympathy for your demise. I cannot imagine the world in the view that you picture it. Cold, sterile, sanitised, and inhumane. Loss of the individual, and larger more invasive governments.