32 replies to this topic

[muneyoshi]

now I haven't seen it yet.. but my question is.. without hardpoints can it 1 shot a a MC120.. a SD.. starbase (higher classes like a class 4 and above is what concerns me).. golan.. or worse.. a SSD or a sov? if so then a ISD would be grossly overpowered in my opinion (a few rebel heros have a type IV elite ISD)

Edited by muneyoshi, 04 January 2008 - 03:43 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

No, no. It can one-shot a frigate and maybe a cruiser. Still, it may be overpowered . Unfortunately, Wookieepedia describes the Accuser (originator of the proton beam) as a "possible" Imperial III. I may have to go back and decide that it's just a unique modification. Opinions?

[muneyoshi]

No, no. It can one-shot a frigate and maybe a cruiser. Still, it may be overpowered . Unfortunately, Wookieepedia describes the Accuser (originator of the proton beam) as a "possible" Imperial III. I may have to go back and decide that it's just a unique modification. Opinions?

Well.. I think it should be a more unique item.. say on the hero ISD's rather then in general.. something I love to do is attack on multiple sides of a ISD with frigate class ships.. MC40's wrk great for this.. forces the ISD to split it's fire power more maing it more manageable.. I d that when I don't hve a MC80 to soak up the fire.. those shields go on and on and on lol.. it doesn't have the power to take out an ISD alone (I tried a couple times just to be sure since it shouldn't) and in that kind of fight the ISD would eventually win.. but that's why I put other ships to it's sides ..

and this is kinda off the point.. but I had a brillent tactical moment earlier.. ISD pounding a golan I... jumped a MC80c rght along it's flank.. actually let me jump it in at close range.. poor poor ISD.. he wasn't around much longer.. you don't get many chances like that lol

[8492nd]

now I haven't seen it yet.. but my question is.. without hardpoints can it 1 shot a a MC120.. a SD.. starbase (higher classes like a class 4 and above is what concerns me).. golan.. or worse.. a SSD or a sov? if so then a ISD would be grossly overpowered in my opinion (a few rebel heros have a type IV elite ISD)

You can be sure that they don't do this because the "Expiration" won't allow it.

No, no. It can one-shot a frigate and maybe a cruiser. Still, it may be overpowered . Unfortunately, Wookieepedia describes the Accuser (originator of the proton beam) as a "possible" Imperial III. I may have to go back and decide that it's just a unique modification. Opinions?

Well the Accuser is an Elite unit. If the Elite ISDs are modified to have that ability, thats fine. But having a fleet of 6 ISD MK IVs, that's something else !

Edited by 8492nd, 04 January 2008 - 10:26 PM.

[EduardPais]

The proton beam should only be used by isd mk4s.

Edited by EduardPais, 05 January 2008 - 12:16 AM.

[muneyoshi]

The proton beam should only be used by isd mk4s.

no.. even then you can have fleets of them when they are upgraded.. I think it should be held out for the elite ISD's.. which also makes sense.. such a weaon upgrade would be given to proven captains and crews.. not just everyone

[GrandMoffThoth]

"which also makes sense.. such a weaon upgrade would be given to proven captains and crews.. not just everyone" -(muneyoshi)

Which is exactly the territory I believe is worth the scrutiny, & effort of incorporating. The only possible way to get that to function bug-free, is to find a reliable way to track character progress/interaction. Though this can easily be phrased in such a way as to sound 'too detailed', this is one of the benefits of the work. I think what it would require for the ai to deem a hero 'proven' enough to posess this 'advanced weapon', is exactly what would make the promotion system function w/o fear that everyone will just promote 100 ensigns to Grand Moff. I don't have a problem with this freedom, so much as it ensures, those Grand Moffs would bring into battle all the prowess of someone sorely underqualified. If that's too hard, just make it impossible to jump ranks like that.
Anyway, this area opens up all kinds of goodies, like personalization of heroes due to their accomplishments.

One last note, though, is that the rank of captain doesn't require so much proof of possession, as an admiral etc. It would only make sense to leave it for captains if ensigns were all over the place. If an extensively accurate promo sys existed, then ok, but it should probably go higher than captain if you want to go through the trouble of changing it.
Just as much ground exists to cover for the Rebel's ranking system as it's not based on cold hard battle stats. a hero that loses a fleet just to escape with the lives of 3 other heroes, is a greater feat for the rebels than a tactical victory. (Depending on the 'proven' abilities of those 3 heroes, of course)
Perhaps most succinctly captured within this quote,
"To remain obdurate before authority, to display one's loyalty to the collective, to be a zealous student wholeheartedly eager to deepen one's grasp of doctrine--these were qualities that bore witness precisely to the personal, to the individual."
- Milovan Djilas

what were we talking about again?

[muneyoshi]

Dunno if the programing would let rank systems happen, and not including personality traits.

As for the proton beam, I say keep it for the Imperial Star Destroyer, since you pay like 100k to get to ISD IV, even though it comes at mark III, maybe change it to mark IV or just make the mark III upgrade a little more, maybe a couple thousand credits more. Anyways, why would Empire only want it for elite ships when they could have a fleet of them, I highly think that a Captain encharge of a ISD is worthy of a proton beam, not just Admirals and very excellent Captains.

but what sets the precident for that? in canon do all ISD IV's have it? how many ISD IV's are even there? Was a proton beam on The Accuser because of Piet (spelling is off but you get the idea).. or because it was a design change to be made on ALL ISD III's and above? and research cost aside.. once done an ISD IV isn't all that much and it's easy enough to amass fleets of them

[muneyoshi]

"which also makes sense.. such a weaon upgrade would be given to proven captains and crews.. not just everyone" -(muneyoshi)

Which is exactly the territory I believe is worth the scrutiny, & effort of incorporating. The only possible way to get that to function bug-free, is to find a reliable way to track character progress/interaction. Though this can easily be phrased in such a way as to sound 'too detailed', this is one of the benefits of the work. I think what it would require for the ai to deem a hero 'proven' enough to posess this 'advanced weapon', is exactly what would make the promotion system function w/o fear that everyone will just promote 100 ensigns to Grand Moff. I don't have a problem with this freedom, so much as it ensures, those Grand Moffs would bring into battle all the prowess of someone sorely underqualified. If that's too hard, just make it impossible to jump ranks like that.
Anyway, this area opens up all kinds of goodies, like personalization of heroes due to their accomplishments.

One last note, though, is that the rank of captain doesn't require so much proof of possession, as an admiral etc. It would only make sense to leave it for captains if ensigns were all over the place. If an extensively accurate promo sys existed, then ok, but it should probably go higher than captain if you want to go through the trouble of changing it.
Just as much ground exists to cover for the Rebel's ranking system as it's not based on cold hard battle stats. a hero that loses a fleet just to escape with the lives of 3 other heroes, is a greater feat for the rebels than a tactical victory. (Depending on the 'proven' abilities of those 3 heroes, of course)
Perhaps most succinctly captured within this quote,
"To remain obdurate before authority, to display one's loyalty to the collective, to be a zealous student wholeheartedly eager to deepen one's grasp of doctrine--these were qualities that bore witness precisely to the personal, to the individual."
- Milovan Djilas

what were we talking about again?

a rank system would be nice.. but I agree with Pais.. I don't know if it can be prgrammed into it or how diffcult such a cange would be to make.. and I think there are a few bigger problems which I am going to affress in aother topic

[Phoenix Rising]

As far as implementing something like veterency, in which you would get promoted based on experience, I think that would be next to impossible. Even if it were, it would take a very long time to do.

[jdk002]

The upgraded MC ships are tough as a nut to crack. The upgraded ISD's have a Proton Beam. So personally I think it evens out.

But that's just me.

[Phoenix Rising]

That was my thought as well. The Liberty gets Advanced Power to Shields, which is already advanced from being Mon Calamari design, so it's nearly impossible to take out with turbolasers.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 06 January 2008 - 03:39 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

I haven't decided yet. I think the ISD branch is kind of OP for a capital though, so I'll probably have to tone something down a bit.

[muneyoshi]

They ARE better then MC ships even without the proton beam.. in my opinion anyway.. but I've rambled about that already... perhapes increase the "power to shields" recharge timer? MC ships are SUPPOSED to be tough nuts to crack.. the Empire needs to use different weapon systems to get around the shields.. not just beat them down.. (ie bombers and missle weapons)

Edited by muneyoshi, 06 January 2008 - 06:54 PM.

[muneyoshi]

I haven't decided yet. I think the ISD branch is kind of OP for a capital though, so I'll probably have to tone something down a bit.

actually.. I think the ISD line.. short of the proton beam is just fine to be honest.. if any SD line is crazy it's those damn Victory's.. that missle volley in just nuts (hint hint for those complaining about the "shields" on MC ships ) .. the problem is.. they just keep doing it.. I mean.. really how many missles can they even store on that ship? lol ( I would like to note that I have not seen the comp build a victory SD yet.. I was using the imps adn tested them)

Edited by muneyoshi, 06 January 2008 - 06:55 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Yeah, there's not a good way for me to count projectile weapons in EaW (I'm not sure if I'd even want to), so that's all mechanic. But it's the same for everyone - all launchers reload every two minutes.

[Ghostrider]

No, no. It can one-shot a frigate and maybe a cruiser. Still, it may be overpowered . Unfortunately, Wookieepedia describes the Accuser (originator of the proton beam) as a "possible" Imperial III. I may have to go back and decide that it's just a unique modification. Opinions?

I really like the fact that if you run Shadow Hand on full tech level, the rebels get 2 ISD 3's. I smoked a pirate Dreadnought in one shot. Keep it in. Really good incentive to research the mark III. Just make sure it has HUGE recharge times.

I also think the octuple guns are wonderful.