26 replies to this topic

[Hostile]

Possibly the greatest US President since FDR. This is part one of his first inaugural speach. He's dubbed as the "great communicator." His ability to speak makes George W look like a fool.

Ahhh, the good old days of Reagan. Often emmulated, but never duplicated.

[Banshee]

Reagan is the most asshole president USA has ever had.. maybe beaten by Bush dad and son. Funded Iraq against Iran at the same time it sold weapons to Iran. They trained some of these franksteins like Saddam and Bin Laden. Not to mention that he barely knew any country in the globe. The dumbass confused Brazil with Bolivia, when talking to the brazilian president in a meeting in Brasilia. Is he so dumb to not even know where is he going to?

Honestly, I don't know which was the best president USA ever had, but I am sure it wasn't Ronald Reagan.

[Casen]

Well, he was a good speaker.

Mixed bag guy, good speaker, spoke well, the "tear down this wall" speech was an epic moment.

Meh...coming to the conclusion that I'm becoming increasingly neutral to the realization that everyone is -right- in their own way...I guess I've descended to another level of thought...happened today...oh wow...it's like...I'm completely balanced and neutral...

Edited by Kacen, 10 January 2008 - 05:07 AM.

[Casen]

Reagan is the most asshole president USA has ever had.. maybe beaten by Bush dad and son. Funded Iraq against Iran at the same time it sold weapons to Iran. They trained some of these franksteins like Saddam and Bin Laden. Not to mention that he barely knew any country in the globe. The dumbass confused Brazil with Bolivia, when talking to the brazilian president in a meeting in Brasilia. Is he so dumb to not even know where is he going to.

I love how depending on what side your on, you always see the bad by your definition, never the good. Was the tearing down of the Berlin wall in the Soviet Union not good?

Yes or no. Don't embellish.

Honestly, I don't know which was the best president USA ever had, but I am sure it wasn't Ronald Reagan.

He wasn't the worst, ether. He was a mixed bag, foreign policy-wise, at least. Bush has yet to do anything...positive as far as I know for foreign policy.

But you know when someone does something "negative" by your own relative definition, you seem to neglect and not speak of any positive. I am not saying you do, I understand how human nature is. Does bad override good in all cases? To the extent that any good a person did is irrelevant and the person is automatically an "asshole", or related negative synonym?

Regardless...he toppled, or at least greatly helped topple an authoritarian regime. And do not go on to say he was a "totalitarian", then so is the president of Iran by your definition, and he is not, he is democratically elected, and so was Reagan.

If you think on a 100% purely technical, efficient level, then you can see through to the truth.

And the best president? Everything is relative to the time, for one thing.

I'd say Abe Lincoln...he had no flaws...whatsoever...

Weirdest guy...he apparently had no religion, was born poor...

It's just...yeah, I know, my answer was cliche`, but it is because it just means he really was...perfect.

[narboza22]

Reagan is the most asshole president USA has ever had.. maybe beaten by Bush dad and son. Funded Iraq against Iran at the same time it sold weapons to Iran. They trained some of these franksteins like Saddam and Bin Laden. Not to mention that he barely knew any country in the globe. The dumbass confused Brazil with Bolivia, when talking to the brazilian president in a meeting in Brasilia. Is he so dumb to not even know where is he going to?

Honestly, I don't know which was the best president USA ever had, but I am sure it wasn't Ronald Reagan.

Huh, funny how most Americans would disagree with you there.

[Casen]

Reagan is the most asshole president USA has ever had.. maybe beaten by Bush dad and son. Funded Iraq against Iran at the same time it sold weapons to Iran. They trained some of these franksteins like Saddam and Bin Laden. Not to mention that he barely knew any country in the globe. The dumbass confused Brazil with Bolivia, when talking to the brazilian president in a meeting in Brasilia. Is he so dumb to not even know where is he going to?

Honestly, I don't know which was the best president USA ever had, but I am sure it wasn't Ronald Reagan.

Huh, funny how most Americans would disagree with you there.

Theres no such thing as right or wrong.

Literally, there isn't.

The "average" of right or wrong changes over time, but it is still see-sawed by different sides relative. Theres a threshold where few people fall back as it advances, and a threshold where few people go further where it advances. It stays relative.

And I should say my mom hated him, so she tells me, that he was a corrupt individual and untrustworthy.

And Narboza22 try to give a more constructive response, that is simply immature.

And putting "US Supporter to the end" puts you at a bias, which causes instability. You will not sway and you will merely fuel the other side. Over time this is what caused such dualism in the world.

Edited by Kacen, 10 January 2008 - 06:30 AM.

[Gosho]

I'd say Abe Lincoln...he had no flaws...whatsoever...

Weirdest guy...he apparently had no religion, was born poor...

It's just...yeah, I know, my answer was cliche`, but it is because it just means he really was...perfect.

No, he wasn't. He was a racist - he wanted black people free, but stated on MANY occasions how he saw them as unworthy of holding public jobs or even having the right to vote. That's right, kids - he thought black people were worse than white! Hooray for him!

Reagan. Feh, dislike him on a great scale. Too much of a crowd controller and US-hero.

[narboza22]

Don't lecture me Kacen.

[Casen]

I'd say Abe Lincoln...he had no flaws...whatsoever...

Weirdest guy...he apparently had no religion, was born poor...

It's just...yeah, I know, my answer was cliche`, but it is because it just means he really was...perfect.

No, he wasn't. He was a racist - he wanted black people free, but stated on MANY occasions how he saw them as unworthy of holding public jobs or even having the right to vote. That's right, kids - he thought black people were worse than white! Hooray for him!

Reagan. Feh, dislike him on a great scale. Too much of a crowd controller and US-hero.

He wanted them to be sent back to Africa, actually.

And it was relative to the time. Most people in the western world were a little bit racist.

Actually, wait, those things are conspiracy theories.

No one knew about such things as cultural reasons for people being the way they are.

Give us a fucking break we have no one to be proud of?

Edited by Kacen, 11 January 2008 - 05:27 AM.

[Casen]

Don't lecture me Kacen.

Kill yourself you Republican scum.

Your a defect in my country.

Edited by Kacen, 11 January 2008 - 05:25 AM.

[MSpencer]

If I still had my mod powers here, on that note, I'd lock it and issue a warning.
Just a friendly suggestion from the person who used to run the Think Tank.

[Tom]

LOL. Pretty amusing.

Personally I think Lincoln could be considered one of them, regardless if he was rascist or not, he still challenged the status quo. I'd say JFK was also another amazing president. The others have been pretty shoddy considering most of them have aims of strengthening corporate power, nothing more.

[Gosho]

True, he changed an entire system. Few people are brave/stupid enough to even concider that and he pulled it off. That doesn't make him perfect though.

[Beowulf]

Don't lecture me Kacen.

Kill yourself you Republican scum.

Your a defect in my country.

I'm not even Republican and I find this statement revolting. Shit, no wonder the government sucks. Nobody can get along and focus on things that matter.

Don't be so petty, Kacen Jesus fucking Christ.

[Casen]

I had some bipolar-induced anger last night so forgive me, allow me to clarify.

Let's be honest, most people back in those days were racist, it's just to what extent. We knew jack shit about science. And just because someone was racist does not mean they hated. Nowadays practically all racists hate because of the turmoil and dualism caused by the formation of racists groups, the opposition by more racist people to what they saw as integrating inferior people into society, which caused dualism and hate. For example, the KKK were formed by ex-confederates who were infuriated by loosing the civil war. The confederates themselves during the war merely generally believed that black people were less intelligent and should be kept slaves.

The KKK grew and evolved to despise and hate, and began gradually adding more groups of people to their list than just blacks out of spite. But anyway I'm going a bit off topic...

Many of our founding fathers said things that could be considered "racist", but they were less racist than a lot of people around them since they didn't believe in slavery, which is ahead of their time. You can't blame humans for being humans regardless. Fact is, back then and in many cases still today the culture of Africans was very different from Europeans, it was seen as alien. They didn't know the difference between culture and how the brain works.

Thomas Jefferson, for instance, who I am actually related to on my mother's side, owned slaves, however back then for black people in the U.S. it was ether be owned as a slave or be locked in cages. Thomas Jefferson was against slavery, but at the time he had no power to change that, neither did a lot of the founding fathers. He actually treated the slaves as relatively well as a slave could be treated, knowing the alternative was to be locked in cages or be owned by someone else who most likely would treat them as a typical slave would be treated.

He himself commented it was a moral dilemma for him:

Jefferson owned many slaves over his lifetime. Some find it baffling that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves yet was outspoken in saying that slavery was immoral and it should be abolished. Biographers point out that Jefferson was deep in debt and had encumbered his slaves by notes and mortgages; he chose not to free them until he finally was debt-free, which he never was.[57] Jefferson seems to have suffered pangs and trials of conscience as a result.[58] He wrote about slavery, "We have the wolf by the ears; and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go. Justice is in one scale, and self-preservation in the other."[59]

And like I said previously, even then, for a time he thought perhaps they were not as intelligent, HOWEVER, later on in his life he began to believe that it was not their intelligence but cultural afflictions on them, the fact they were not educated.

http://en.wikipedia....son_and_slavery Read.

And the thing about Lincoln wanting to send slaves back to Africa, there is evidence of that, but people did think simply back then, he thought that "Well, we wrongfully brought them here from their homes, brought them here and forced them to slave labor, we should do the moral thing and return them to their homes."

Of course, today, thats horridly unrealistic, but just remember everything is relative to the time.

Edited by Kacen, 11 January 2008 - 05:44 PM.

[Cossack]

I respect and agree with very few US presidents.

Ronald Reagan deffinately is not one of them. His government sponsered death, torture and terrorism. And unlike Bush, who openly invaded Iraq and looked like a fool and a tyrant, Reagan was being a pussy and tried to hide the whole thing.

I would respect JFK, except that his stuborness almost caused the apocaplypse...
sure, the US is allowed to have missiles in Turkey, but NOOO we'll wage war and endager the lives of every human being on the planet if those damn soviets try to put missiles in Cuba!

I respect FDR, and I respect Lincoln.... Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were not terrible (though they were in no means good)...most of the pre-WWII ones I know nothing about.

[Tom]

I respect JFK for many other reasons. The fact he challenged the federal reserve and tried to circulate real american currency back into the system rather than fake paper money created by the banking system. He also stood for civil rights, just as Lincoln did. JFK got assassinated partly because of these reasons in my opinion, pretty much the same as Lincoln.

[Cheshire Fox]

I respect Taft. No man should have to go what he went through.

[Casen]

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were not terrible (though they were in no means good)...most of the pre-WWII ones I know nothing about.

Jimmy Carter I thought he was a great guy. O_o; Very good morals. And Bill Clinton well he didn't invade other countries in our name...though he was a bit of a...player... *cough* He was definitely our pimp president.

And other than some reluctance and apathy about slavery, the pre-WWII presidents in general were actually fairly good. But keep in mind relativity to their time. I'm of the belief that if slavery had been instituted in Europe to the extent it was here, then it would have been just as bad there; such opinions were common of European people of their time, lets be honest. Europeans were at those times, lets be fair, generally very arrogant (I say Europeans not out of geography but of stock, thus including US and Canada). Fact is the only reason during the time of slavery Europe didn't have slaves is because they had no need for them, no cotton to pick. =/

And before World War II ended, or before the Cold War rather, I noticed that the USA was greatly respected, at least relative to now...sad what happened these past roughly 60+ years.

Now, on a related note, my least favorite president would have to be Truman...let me explain why. While it could be argued he had done "good" things, and was not corrupt, the repercussions of his actions, from what I can ascertain, are what seems to me the lasting cause of the my country's belligerent foreign policy since WWII, in addition to many things in the USA that I dislike and many other that other countries consider "propaganda-like" and "totalitarian".

He was the one who decided to drop the atom bombs on Japan. If Franklin D. Roosevelt managed to freaken` hang on longer from his polio and stuck by his plan Japan wouldn't have been nuked. Now I dislike the A-Bombs on Japan, it was wrong to kill civilians, however I get irritated when people criticize it out of all the other times civilians were bombed in World War II. I mean the incendiary bombings we did on Japan killed more people, and then theres the bombing of Dresden and numerous other carpet bombings of civilian cities just to hit a few military targets. The only reason we(as in humanity) did that back then was out of desperation and the fact we didn't have precision weapons so we had to resort to using tons of bombs or a few big ones.

Regardless, I have a deeper more personal hatred of the A-Bombings; the fact they from what I can tell triggered the Cold War and the Arms race, the cold war causing many of the paranoia-induced propaganda-like effects on the USA over the past roughly 60 years, like the more diligent patriotism, the adding of under god to the pledge and the money and other places to spite the Soviets (to be fair the pledge should not be there period), and in opinion I believe in destabilized us and still effects us. It made us more arrogant in general with all the propaganda put on us. Ugh, the communists effected us in more ways we could imagine.

Really we need some future president to pass some sort of legislature to remove the effects of the cold war, like the under god and such, though you know once that was added by Dwight D. Eisenhower it dug us into a deep hole; now removing it would upset the Fundamentalist Christians and also the normal Christians who like it casually and would feel it spiting. Ugh...and Democracy just means it could be added again, unless we strictly enforce it...oh wait, we do! The 1st Amendment conservatives love to ignore.

"If they be good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa, or Europe; they may be Mohammedans (Muslims), Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists." - George Washington

Edited by Kacen, 13 January 2008 - 04:07 AM.

[lefthand]

Reagan sucked. He took credit for ending the Cold War (which he didn't...it just ended on his watch), record breaking debt (until Bush the 2nd out done him on that), pretty much handed Afghanistan to Islamic fundamentalists, aided in the creation of the fundamentalist Islam throughout central Asia, Eastern Africa and the Middle East...but he was a Great Speaker!

A healthy portion of today’s problems in the Middle East can be traced back to him.