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#61 Lord Djibril

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 02:32 PM

The Doppelhorn Striker and the Jet Striker pack are also striker packs but are updated versions and cheaper for the Dagger L. and Windam Series compared to the Launcher and Aile Packs. The Dagger L. can use the striker packs used by the 105 Dagger and the Strike but the Windam can only use the Aile Striker pack. The striker pack technology is being used by the Atlantic Federation for all their mass production models except for the Strike Dagger.

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#62 Stargazer

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 03:05 PM

aye, Dagger L's can use the sword and the launcher ones.


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#63 Crusader

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 03:09 PM

I would have to agree with SG on this one, it does look a bit starwars-ish, mebe something that still uses 4 track parts like the original tanks, but has some nasty weapons on top, that would look a but more Gundam-ish. weapons always go on top lol.


I think when the term "Striker Packs" come to mind, it mostly means that it's universal, so everyone should technically be able to use any of the other packs, provided that you have the Striker Pack system.

Edited by Crusader, 02 February 2008 - 03:11 PM.

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#64 Stargazer

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 04:20 PM

It would look great finite if:

- Lowered it to the close off the ground.
- Added a 4th track at the back.
- Made the tracks closer to the main body.
- Added two tank turrets at the front/sides.
- Add two big missile type of systems at the back.


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#65 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:22 AM

Alright, i checked mahq and it does indicate that your right about those striker packs. Still, i havent seen them anywhere but in mahq, so im not totally giving up on it just yet. The pictures at mahq are still photoshopped.

By the way, ive hit upon a tiny bit of information that suggests that slaughter daggers are an improved design. The ordinary 105 dagger is called that because its based on Strike (GAT-X105), but its real designation is GAT-01A1. Any 105 dagger modified with a striker pack has this designation plus the designation of the pack, eg:GAT-01A1+AQM/E-X02 Sword Dagger.

The point is that the Slaughter Dagger has the designation GAT-01A2R, not GAT-01A1. And this is without the pack designation. So it implies that it is a improved variation model of the ordinary 105 dagger. This information is only as good as MAHQ is, so we cant be completely sure since its non-official. By that token, we also cant be sure of the issue with the striker packs.


But anyway, i have some other things to show. You guys know about the SEED frame astrays manga already? It focuses on Serpent tail now, and i have to say, blue frame is as good looking as ever. Now its the Gundam Astray Blue Frame Third L.

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And there's a fourth strike unit now, a GAT-X105E that doesnt have a permanent noir pack like sven's.

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There are some other MS too, check out here http://www.astrays.net/
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#66 Crusader

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 04:51 AM

Really? Damn I didnt know the new chapter was out already lol, I was waiting for it.


Hmm, I thought the Noir's backpace was not permenant, looked like it was still interchangable

Edited by Crusader, 04 February 2008 - 04:51 AM.

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#67 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 08:03 AM

From what i read, its semi-permanent. Technically it can be pulled off, but since sven has no plan to use any other pack, its been reinforced to the chassis. It can be taken off only in a full refit.

This new Strike E can mount a noir pack too though.

Interestingly, some of the standard packs have been upgraded for use with this strike. The launcher and aile variants are still the same as far as i know, but when equipping the sword pack, this stike has 2 shields instead of one, and they look updated. It also has two beam boomerangs. Also, the IWSP is still mostly the same, except that the anti-ship swords have been modified to a beam-sword variant.

Edited by Dark Lord Revan, 04 February 2008 - 09:39 AM.

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#68 Lord Djibril

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 01:23 PM

Well alright but as you said it is GAT-01A2R this would mean it was taken in the blueprint of the GAT-01A1 Series which is a much older version compared to the GAT-04 Windam models. By the way don't you guys notice that the GAT-02L2 Dagger L. model does not have any similarity to its predecessor the GAT-01A1 Dagger, but has the complete similarity to the mass production version of the Duel Gundam, the GAT-01D Long Dagger.

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the Dagger L.

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the Long Dagger

If you look at it closely guys you would see that this two have a major similarity in its body frame. Let us not also forget another mobile armor of the OMNI Enforcer, the TSX-MA717/ZD Pergrande which is only operable in space and carries the deadly DRAGOON armaments, we could include this but requires lots of research and quite expensive. We could see that the OMNI has created many different kinds of mobile weapons, but still must be balanced to the few models of the ZAFT Forces. While for the Hannibal Class, your right it doesn't need to carry it's own Destroy Gundam, but may it main purpose is to carry it and repair som damages of it.

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#69 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 01:51 PM

Actually, what i think is the case, is that the Strike dagger is based loosely on the 105 dagger. Thereafter, all following dagger units are based upon the strike dagger, not the 105 dagger. The 105 dagger looks more like a gundam than any dagger, because well...it has a higher quality standard. Which is what ive been arguing.

Just because the numbering is GAT-01A2R or GAT-01A1 doesnt make it older or inferior to GAT-04. The number begins with 01 becuase its a variant of the 105 dagger. My point is that the 01A2R variant would not have been designed for a special forces unit if it was inferior in design. If its inferior, wouldnt Phantom Pain be better off using windams?

Older doesnt mean inferior. If it is, then the windam would be better than all previous gundams, especially the Strike. Its based on the strike afterall, isnt it? Just like the 105 dagger is. Also, the 105 dagger isnt as mass-produced as the windam.

By the way, the long or duel dagger isnt a mass-produced version of the duel gundam. Its more like a variant of dagger that has been designed to more closely follow the design specifications of the duel gundam.
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#70 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 01:54 PM

Actually, what i think is the case, is that the Strike dagger is based loosely on the 105 dagger. Thereafter, all following dagger units are based upon the strike dagger, not the 105 dagger. The 105 dagger looks more like a gundam than any dagger, because well...it has a higher quality standard. Which is what ive been arguing.

Just because the numbering is GAT-01A2R or GAT-01A1 doesnt make it older or inferior to GAT-04. The number begins with 01 becuase its a variant of the 105 dagger. My point is that the 01A2R variant would not have been designed for a special forces unit if it was inferior in design. If its inferior, wouldnt Phantom Pain be better off using windams?

Older doesnt mean inferior. If it is, then the windam would be better than all previous gundams, especially the Strike. Its based on the strike afterall, isnt it? Just like the 105 dagger is. Also, the 105 dagger isnt as mass-produced as the windam.

By the way, the long or duel dagger isnt a mass-produced version of the duel gundam. Its more like a variant of dagger that has been designed to more closely follow the design specifications of the duel gundam.

Also, the Pergrande was never mass-produced or moved past the prototype stage.
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#71 Lord Djibril

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 01:19 PM

May be because the Phantom Pain is trying to hide themselves and tries their best not to be connected to the OMNI Enforcer, and the 105 Dagger is the first of all mass production models even than the Strike Dagger, but because the Alliance needed mobile suits as fast as they can in field so they produced a much cheaper models of this which we know as the GAT-01 models. And possible the GAT-04 Windam offers even much performance than the known Strike Gundam for as seen in the anime, the unit used by Neo was able to at least much up ace pilots Kira, and Athrun, and it was not even custom in any other weapon except for the color scheme. We only see this units weak because it is usually facing ace pilots such as Shinn, Rey, Yzak, and other known pilots. Also in the official site the Dagger L. is descibed as "is an improved version of the Dagger series introduced during the previous war", this would mean it has the better performance compared to the 105 Dagger and the Strike Dagger models.

Also if we can see in the the Heaven's Base, there are a large number of 105 Dagger models preparing for battle and for me I believe that those models were the one responsible for the defeat of the Alliance stronghold, for they were faced with the ZAFT superior models which the Windam could only face up properly.

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#72 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 05:33 PM

....seriously i dont know how hard you skull is.

And possible the GAT-04 Windam offers even much performance than the known Strike Gundam for as seen in the anime, the unit used by Neo was able to at least much up ace pilots Kira, and Athrun, and it was not even custom in any other weapon except for the color scheme.


A mobile suit does not decide the outcome. Neo/Muu is a terribly SUPERIOR pilot. Remember that he mentored kira, and can only have gotten better as part of phantom pain. There is no direct evidence from this that the windam is better than strike. I direct attention to the one year war original series, when in the early episode, char kicked amuro's ass. Amuro had the RX-71 and char had...what? A Zaku II HM. Your logic is faulty.

Also in the official site the Dagger L. is descibed as "is an improved version of the Dagger series introduced during the previous war", this would mean it has the better performance compared to the 105 Dagger and the Strike Dagger models.


By dagger series it is referring to the main-line units. As in strike dagger and its variants (buster, duel, etc). 105 is a non-standard unit, often people are confused with the term 'mass-produced' and assume 105 daggers made up the core of the military like the rest of the daggers.

You dont seriously believe that the windam is better than the gundam do you? Its a GUNDAM. They even made a updated variant Strike E.

May be because the Phantom Pain is trying to hide themselves and tries their best not to be connected to the OMNI Enforcer


...im not sure i follow here. They deploy slaughter daggers, a strike, duel and buster, and support the hannibal in one mission and they're trying to keep a low profile? And a girty lue class carrier too...

Sometimes they act like they ARE OMNI in its entirety. Its almost a OMNI version of FAITH.
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#73 Crusader

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 01:30 AM

I Agree, they just change some colors to stand out from the rest of the EA's troops.


Strike is better than any of the mass produced simply because it is a gundam. PS Armor says alot you know. considering that the Wongdam, even including the Jet Strike pack, has only 2 weapons that would actually hurt the Strike(beam rifle and sabre), while every weapon on the Strike can kill the Wingdam.


Once again, depends entirely on the pilots. But as another problem, the earlier models like the Strike were probably a bit outmatched by the latter Mass Produced models, at least the Zaft ones. which is why they made the upgraded versions. the Strike has a prototype beam weapon, which probably wasnt as good as the much better developed beam tech used in the MS produced 2 years later. you know what 2 years can mean in technology? The Strike, even when piloted by Kira, got pretty much owned by the Zaft space forces, using ZAKUs and GOUFs. when before he would barely take any hits.

Mpbile Suit standards done necessarily decide a fight's outcome, but it sure does help to have a nice MS which can better utilize your potentials.
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#74 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 05:54 AM

Actually, no, you're thinking that the strike is outdated because it got outmatched by the zakus and goufs. Thats a common fallacy.

Yes...it was outmatched in that fight. But, 1v1, strike was still better than any one of those suits wasnt it? It was only because it was protecting eternal and outnumbered that kira got so shot up. Yes, strike is older, which is why kira had more trouble handling such a large number of forces. That doesnt mean a zaku or gouf is better than strike. (Tho im willing to concede that a gouf actually IS. I believe the gouf's better than almost any other mass-produced suit, but i have no real evidence)

In that battle, it was more about numbers. True, andrew probably isnt as good as before, but even so he had a more current gundam that also got overwhelmed.
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#75 Crusader

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 05:41 PM

but he still took no real damage, the Strike lost both lefs and an arm, or 2, I think it was both. Andrew only lost a shield, easily replaceable.
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#76 Lord Djibril

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:45 AM

Crusader is right in the two years many technological advancement have been made. This would show that the Windam has a superior performance than the Dagger Series before it, why can't you understand that. The Dagger might have been a good model, but its abilities are updated to the Dagger L. and Windam Series. Also its not only in the pilots ability but also on the unit being used, for if the unit can't coupe up with the pilot ability then it can't give the proper performance needed.

Though PS Armor offers protection to other previous models, it is useless to beam technology of the ZAKU, GOUF, and the Windam series. Besides the the 105 Dagger only carries a GAU-8M2 52mm machine gun, making it useless against PS armed units, unless some models of 105 Daggers carries a M703 57mm beam rifle.

If you would check the Gundam Officical Site as I said before, the description of the new models says that they are an updated models of the previous models used in the First War. Even in MAQH it says that the 105 Dagger is later replaced with an improved version the Dagger L. why can't you understand that.

Edited by Lord Djibril, 07 February 2008 - 09:47 AM.

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#77 Stargazer

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:53 AM

last time I checked, PS Armor is useless to ALL beam technology.

therefor, the laminated armor of the 105 is superior because it can actually take those beam shots.


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#78 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 03:19 PM

If you would check the Gundam Officical Site as I said before, the description of the new models says that they are an updated models of the previous models used in the First War. Even in MAQH it says that the 105 Dagger is later replaced with an improved version the Dagger L. why can't you understand that.


The dagger L is an updated version of the strike dagger. Its as simple as that and i dont understand why you cant understand that.

Anyway SG is right, the PS armor used on MS is useless when it comes to beam weaponry. It takes a massive amount of energy to make the PS armor viable to repulse beams. That said, the 105 has the most important advantage that any dagger has...survivabilty. Laminated armor is ABSENT from windams and dagger Ls, they have lost one of the best features of the 105.

You tell me why phantom pain doesnt use dark-coloured windams then.

Since we've come this far, id like to say that mahq is completely and totally unofficial. You're making alot of of the wording.

Games are an unofficial source, but i rate them higher than mahq sometimes. That said, in both SD g generation for psp and ds, as well as generation of CE for ps2, the plain 105 dagger outclasses the windam in firepower, defense and speed and maneuverabilty without packs.

You operate under the false assumption that the 105 is 'just some dagger'. It is not 'just some dagger'. We're not talking GMs here, where each model was as cheap as the last.

Crusader man, i wasnt saying strike is up to the standards of the gaia. Im just pointing out that if it was a 1v1, like strike vs gouf or zaku ONLY, kira wouldnt have a problem. Strike is still better than a single MS but loses out to smaller hordes than if they were ginn hordes. Unrelated comment: uh, andrew also lost his rifle.

Yes. Strike has PS armor and to beam weapons its useless. But remember that for gundams, you have to factor in superior construction, which leads to more speed, maneuverability. Which when it comes to ace pilots, is all they really need.

Since we're really talking about the mod in the end, laminated armor rules.

That gives me an idea that you might already have. SG why not make it so that ace units rely on sheer maneuverability? Make it not just so they're resistant to ballistics, but give them their own class and make it so they're very hard to hit? Say factor 80-90.0 in the xml.
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#79 Crusader

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 04:36 PM

Still, relying on games, Generation of CE actually gives the Zaku modles better basic attack stats than the Strike, so as unofficial as it may be, based on that, you can see that technology has further developed.

Wingdam is more of a new developement rather than being a "Dagger Unit" They are not based on any existing models, while the strike Datter was on the Strike, the Buster Daggers, Superior as they were to even the original Buster Gundam, with PS armor and Lamination, it even has improved firepower as well as a close combat weapon. I guess they wanted to make a few good models rather than mass producing everything.

The Duel Dagger, aka Long Dagger, has good firepower, although no PS armor, still has lamination.
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#80 Dark Lord Revan

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:47 PM

I said games were unofficial, and i was comparing 105 daggers, not strike man. Im just saying its a little bit more evidence, not conclusive.

I have always believed that while they improve their suits, EAF has always decided on mass-producing everything. Including destroy gundams. Including making the upteenth version of this dagger or that based on some gundam.
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