67 replies to this topic

[robnkarla]

I've been mulling the idea over for most the day weighing if this will work. I have to say I do like the thinking out of the box, and especially the lag reduction for not having to display all of the buffnuggets. I also like the idea that then the graphic would only be on the hero and not across the army. As for the spells/banner/statues those can have fx like they are now or individual fx.

The main issue that I'd have to work around is the visibility of who is affected by the leadership. Often it's most crucial when, for example, I have Aragorn with Archers and I want to make sure he stays in the area that give the most units the benefit of his leadership. Without the visual display it would be harder to judge, and might even lead to doubts it's working.

I really love the idea, but I just can't think of a way over this hurtle for gameplay. If you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

One thought could be that the hero decal/fx could be listed for a passive leadership, but then each heroes passive leadership amounts would be lowered, then they could have a boost to the leadership with a rousing speech (with sound) etc. that would trigger the unit fx. Thus, since the passive would not be as strong it would not be as necessary for the visual display, but not always on so that it can take advantage of the lag. In a way it would be similar to Theoden, leadership & Glorious charge. It would mirror real battle as well. There are times when you might be inspired in battle by your captains, but it would wear off, but his presense would make a difference however slight.

Just a thought.

Robert J.

[Vithar-133]

One thought could be that the hero decal/fx could be listed for a passive leadership, but then each heroes passive leadership amounts would be lowered, then they could have a boost to the leadership with a rousing speech (with sound) etc. that would trigger the unit fx. Thus, since the passive would not be as strong it would not be as necessary for the visual display, but not always on so that it can take advantage of the lag. In a way it would be similar to Theoden, leadership & Glorious charge. It would mirror real battle as well. There are times when you might be inspired in battle by your captains, but it would wear off, but his presense would make a difference however slight.

Hmm....This is an extremely good idea....I'd say go for it.

[Black Dragon]

I do wonder why there needs to be any visual FX to display leadership. When I play a game, not once do I take note that my hero is affecting certain units, I know that if my hero is in with a group of men those around him may be influenced by his leadership. You know which units are affected based on the leadership description…so I ask again why add an unrealistic glow or FX to show you what you already know?

I had a game the other day with a 3 v3ai. It was Rohan, Gondor, Elves Vs Mordor, Angmar, Isengard…during this battle we encountered severe lag and I believe it was due to the visual FX from the horses leadership.

The game engine of BFME is very poor, My PC is fairly good yet it can struggle in online games due to lag. I believe that anything that can reduce lag should be a priority to allow people to make the most out of the game/mod by having epic large scale battles. My PC specs are as follows:

3Gghz
2GB RAM
512MB Geforce 7950

And to make things worse I play my online games with the graphics on very low just to guarantee a game which runs smoother and most of the time we end up having some slowdown. If there is a choice between adding leadership to the units or heroes I’d rather have whatever makes the game run better. In the films we didn’t have glows over units so we don’t need it in the game, just make the leadership power descriptions more clear as to who they influence (horsemen, archers etc) and remove unnecessary vfx.

[fehik]

Agreed Black Dragon!!! You're absolutely right!

[Devon]

The point of it is to show how far your leadership radius extends, and to let your enemy know that your units are being effected.

[Gothmog14]

Your lag online is likely due to Gamespy having crappy servers. You should be getting the same FPS online as you do offline, maybe a 5 frames difference, but you wouldn't just start lagging really badly in multi player. You probably have ping issues with Gamespy.

Heroes are sometimes hard to see in a large crowd (especially for enemies) and Leadership is usually what makes the difference in infantry battles. There should still be a way to turn leadership off in game though, it looks horrible on screen shots.

[Devon]

That's why we're trying to give it a new fx

[Lauri]

when the game lags online... it doesn't HAVE to be your fault

[Dalf32]

if we could turn off the leadership fx, i think taht would please everyone because i like having the visual aid to tell me how many of my units are being affected and with what type of leadership etc. its obvious that not everyone wants the fx to stay, but i most certainly do, so an option would be cool.

and bad ping by either you or the other person could mess up online; and yea, the gamespy servers are not very good.

[empireruler]

What if for passive leadership, instead of colors on the objects, just click on the hero, and it will show a radius of how far the leadership effects. That way there would be no lag. You could also have the idea Nertea suggested, and then you would only need the fx, for powers, and buildings.

[myster]

actually i agree with nertea, i almost never look at leadership, i use it but i just dont look that often who Does has it and who doesnt has it...

[Dalmp]

if we could turn off the leadership fx, i think taht would please everyone because i like having the visual aid to tell me how many of my units are being affected and with what type of leadership etc. its obvious that not everyone wants the fx to stay, but i most certainly do, so an option would be cool.

But if not turned off for everyone, then all would have to use it anyway in skirmish, or be at a severe disadvantage.

Personally, I think that being unaware of enemy buffs adds to the tactical depth of play, bringing added deception into the picture. But many people disagree, I think, preferring the fast action-reaction environment of full buff disclosure. Both arguments are pretty reasonable I suppose..

Edited by Dalmp, 20 March 2008 - 02:42 AM.

[Myrdin]

leadership adds deep tactic advantiges to game, dont even dare to think about canceling it !
small army with hero that has just leadership, can become deadly foe ( speaking of my own Cah with one power, yeah right only leadership ).

but why you dont like the coloring on units when they affected, i dont get it ? its not ugly or something, soo why to change it ?

[Shikari]

its not ugly or something

Not ugly! have you seen it?

[Dalf32]

dont worry, we're not doing away with the leadership system; its simply a question of whether or not to show it with some fx and how to do so.
its really a personal thing, i dont mind the current fx (although they should be more varied) but i also want to see something because i use that a lot. on the other hand, some people *^^* really dislike how it looks and dont use it all that much so therefore want it gone.

[Shikari]

Yeah, add to that the fact that it lags the game badly, and you just about got it.
The problem is how to replace it, and I think the BFME 1 style glows that Rob has put in look pretty good.

[Dalf32]

yes i liked what he has shown us of that sort of think a lot. i forgot about the lag issue; with this mod, we probably need to be somewhat mindful of lag as it is already worsened (camera angles, models, etc.)

[Myrdin]

dont worry, we're not doing away with the leadership system; its simply a question of whether or not to show it with some fx and how to do so.
its really a personal thing, i dont mind the current fx (although they should be more varied) but i also want to see something because i use that a lot. on the other hand, some people *^^* really dislike how it looks and dont use it all that much so therefore want it gone.

actually "WHAT" is the current fix ? ( im starting to fear the worst ).

and shik. why you think its ugly ?, its just some orange rings around your units, ive seen worser stuff, ALOT worser

[Dalf32]

im not sure what you mean, we havnt actually implemented any sort of change to the current fx system. clarify please?

[Dalmp]

Just some language confusion over the abbreviation 'fx', I believe. If I'm not wrong, he thought you meant you 'fixed' something, as he typed 'fix' with an 'i'.

Just in case that's the source of the confusion: 'FX' is an english phonetic abbreviation for 'effects'. As in 'Special FX'.

Edited by Dalmp, 20 March 2008 - 09:51 PM.