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#1 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 01:52 AM

First off, I want to thank our fans for the response to the release. It's been fantastic!

To those disenchanted by the bugs, don't write us off yet. Realize that the reason for doing a public beta is actually to identify the bugs for the development team so that we can fix them. We don't have formal in-house testers, so it's up to you all to fill this role. So far, the people on the forums have been great in doing this. Their good work has resulted in a number of hotfixes that you can apply to your copy of the mod to address some of the issues before we release a comprehensive patch. Those fixes can be found scattered around the forums, but most of them have been compiled here. Just be cautious when making these changes, as they will prevent you from playing multiplayer.

Now that we've reached our major milestone with the version 1.0 release of Space, what's next for the mod? My goal right now is to get space combat working to perfection - or at least as close as can be attained through modding - which will eventually culminate in a version 1.1. The long-term goal is to have our vision of land combat done by version 2.0, but that is realistically still a long ways off.

In the short time span since the release, I've already made a great deal of changes to address various bugs and balance issues that have cropped up. I'll attempt to detail the most important of those changes:

A lot of people have commented that the galaxy map is too crowded. I was actually aware of this before the release, but because of our timeline, did not want to attempt such a massive undertaking on short notice. I had set the scale last summer, but without knowing which planets I would need for the campaigns, it was just a best guess. Since Thrawn's campaign had never been presented in a topographic format before, I wasn't readily aware that most of the flashpoints actually occurred in just a handful of sectors. Now we know and can better accommodate.

The rescaling is done, but that wasn't the major issue with it. The biggest problem is making sure that all planets are still connected to each other at the increased distance, which I'm still working on. I had decided that connectivity was more important than scale for the release, but now that I have more time, we can eventually have both.

I believe we've solved the crashes involving bombing runs. See the forums for details. This is only one source of the exceptions, so keep reporting bugs and we will find the others!

This is important. All turbolaser and turboion weapons have had their damage and range increased by half. The problem was that I had used the RPGs to judge relative damage, but RPGs operate on a six-second round or something similarly synchronized, so it seems their damage had been adjusted for time. Well, in real-time, lasers can fire about every two seconds and turbolasers every three, as it is in the mod. To account for this, I've increased the damage (and thus the range) so that turbolasers are three times as powerful as a comparable laser, but since they're slower to fire, they effectively output twice the damage. As it was, they were doing four-thirds the damage output, which felt weak to me. Prepare to lose some frigates if you're not careful!

Line of sight has been changed to being class-based opposed to armament-based. If the range of your guns exceeds your line of sight, you will require spotters to fire at the maximum distance.

All ships transport size or larger have been given a damage control ability. This allows them to make slow repairs to hull damage at approximately one-tenth of their shield refresh rate. It is not a replacement for dedicated repair craft, however.

The BTL K-wing has been given a fresh conversion thanks to the new version of Starships of the Galaxy, which is actually the first source to give it detailed stats. I've also taken the opportunity to redo its upgrade branch. I had actually gotten the K-wing close on pure speculation, but a few aspects have changed. Speed, acceleration, maneuverability, hyperdrive, and shielding remain the same on the base model, while hull increases modestly. The main differences are to payload. It now features a total of 18 proton torpedoes and 6 plasma torpedoes, spread out three to a launcher instead of being directly affixed to a hardpoint. On top of that, 4 concussion missiles are added on the first upgrade. To compensate, the double laser turret has been downgraded to light, which effectively makes it a turreted version of the Y-wing's laser cannons. So it trades some of its fighter defense for roughly double the warhead capacity of the released version. The cost has also been increased accordingly.

The Modular Taskforce Cruiser has also gotten a new conversion (and upgrade branch), this time from WEG sourcebooks. Intended as a non-combat vessel, it loses much of its shielding and hull from where it was, but I've also given it a built-in system spy ability to simulate some of the other modules, such as the Observation Module. Build cost for the MTC has been decreased to compensate for its loss of durability.

Due to some sort of confusion on Wookieepedia, it turns out that the ATR Assault Transport doesn't actually have laser cannons at all, so I've removed them. The ion cannons remain, but I've switched them to light turboion cannons, thus stripping it of all starfighter-scale weaponry. Make sure you escort these in the future.

The IPV has switched roles. All of its turbolasers have been replaced with laser cannons and the capacity of its launcher has been increased to 24 missiles, but otherwise the upgrades remain the same. Sources lean towards its guns being "boosted laser cannons" instead of actual capital-scale turbolasers, which is more in-line with its mission profile as a counter-smuggler ship.

I've added the YV-666 Light Freighter as a neutral transport. I went with the 62 m Fact File length of Hound's Tooth to allow it to fill a role as a heavy freighter-transport for CEC, despite the remaining canonical designation. You can read about it (and the rest of the changed ships) in the Units section.

Speaking of freighters, I found out that I had overpowered their income generation ability such that they were capable of producing more revenue fully upgraded per planet than mines in terms of population and structure slots respectively. This had never been my intent, so I've halved the extent of their income upgrades. Fully upgraded freighters now produce 250 credits/week instead of 400. In Skirmish, however, they produce slightly more than the previous levels. Meanwhile, mineral extractors generate less.

Golan platforms in Skirmish are now "reinforced" with double shielding and hull since all other ships are at full upgrade status. I may also improve their armament; I haven't decided yet.

The AI now builds more balanced fleets in Skirmish, in addition to better selecting targets to attack. For one, less battlecruisers are being built and the star dreadnoughts have been removed from the AI's building options completely, such as to avoid the massive build delays. AI players will also upgrade their Golan base quicker than before.

Finally, the AI has been disallowed from scouting with its starfighters. Fighters, bombers, and transports will now actively dogfight and engage your ships, so be prepared. Also, the AI should be smarter about hiding freighters/non-combat ships, escorting capital ships, and exploiting lowered shields in tactical combat.

Changes are occurring all the time, so keep reporting those bugs for us!

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 28 January 2008 - 02:36 AM.


#2 Yurec

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 12:24 PM

So, how do you plan to release these changes and fixes? As one big patch or as a series of smaller patches?

#3 slornie

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 12:42 PM

Wow.. That has to be the longest textual update ive seen :)

Anyhow, its good to hear that things are still progressing, and that your attention to detail is as focused as ever.
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#4 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 07:32 PM

Yeah, I started typing and just didn't stop. I guess I made more changes than even I thought.

Since these are already made, there's no sense in releasing them as a series of smaller patches. They'll all be included in the next patch, which will be out when all of the known bugs from 1.0 are fixed.

#5 Dalmp

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 10:21 PM

Oh hell yeah.

So the turbolaser ranges are increased by 50%, but you can't see to the range of your guns. Which means that capships take on the role of 'artillery'. Slow lumbering fire support, but not as useful without 'spotters'.

Good eye on the Golan-in-skirmish thing. I was going to mention that but hadn't gotten around to reporting it. I was finding that blitz strategies with early capship production (rather than expansion) could end the skirmish game before it starts.

Looking forward to the patch eagerly. :)

Edited by Dalmp, 28 January 2008 - 10:27 PM.

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#6 Valter

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 10:25 PM

Great news. By the way, will pirate fleets be diversified in the next patch?

#7 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 06:36 AM

So the turbolaser ranges are increased by 50%, but you can't see to the range of your guns. Which means that capships take on the role of 'artillery'. Slow lumbering fire support, but not as useful without 'spotters'.

Well, yes and no. Fixing the sensor range was mainly done to prevent ships with ultra-long range guns from seeing half of the map. But with EaW, if a ship is attacking you, it gets revealed automatically, so it's not really possible to do spotting effectively. Just throw some fighters at mid-range and they'll get shot at by enemy turbolasers and that's good enough.

By the way, will pirate fleets be diversified in the next patch?

It's probably important to do that sooner rather than later, so yeah.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 29 January 2008 - 06:38 AM.


#8 anakinskysolo

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 11:13 AM

Are you going to add a few more ships (like the Viscount for the rebels) to balance in the patch?

#9 Invadious

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 01:54 PM

The Mod is Balanced enough since the Executor is as expensive as a massive fleet and has the same population capacity as a massive fleet.

#10 Dane Kiet

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 03:31 PM

But is far more annoying to take down. In order to silence any of its fire-power, you have to kill it completely. While a fleet of ImpStars would be easier, since you can take out the ships one by one. Oh, and is there any way to make point defense better? After all, the Vic is murder on lightly armored frigates.

Edited by Dane Kiet, 29 January 2008 - 03:33 PM.

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#11 anakinskysolo

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 04:01 PM

The Mod is Balanced enough since the Executor is as expensive as a massive fleet and has the same population capacity as a massive fleet.


Yeah, but anyway it would be cool to have it, and I think it would balance it better anyway, remember that the Viscount was produced because the NR realized that it was too difficult to destroy the SSDs with just bombers and that they lost too many resources. Maybe you should have the alternative to counter fire with fire.

#12 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 07:49 PM

Are you going to add a few more ships (like the Viscount for the rebels) to balance in the patch?

I haven't settled on what new ships will be in it yet, but if I do add any, it will indeed largely be for balance purposes. The Viscount's name has come up the most from the fans, but it would be a massive rigging job - and I didn't even finish the MC80s yet (they've only got, what, eight bones?). But the star dreadnought disparity is perhaps only the most obvious one. If you're aware of another missing role, then start a new thread and state your case. I get the impression that the Imperial Fleet is at least more versatile than the Rebel's, but I want to hear how other people feel.

Oh, and is there any way to make point defense better? After all, the Vic is murder on lightly armored frigates.

The Victory is kind of the answer to point-defense, not vice versa. Jamming is really the answer to the Victory, but it's hard to pull off with just A-wings.

#13 Guest_StarWars_*

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 06:54 PM

The rescaling is done, but that wasn't the major issue with it. The biggest problem is making sure that all planets are still connected to each other at the increased distance, which I'm still working on. I had decided that connectivity was more important than scale for the release, but now that I have more time, we can eventually have both.

I believe we've solved the crashes involving bombing runs. See the forums for details. This is only one source of the exceptions, so keep reporting bugs and we will find the others!

All ships transport size or larger have been given a damage control ability. This allows them to make slow repairs to hull damage at approximately one-tenth of their shield refresh rate. It is not a replacement for dedicated repair craft, however.

Due to some sort of confusion on Wookieepedia, it turns out that the ATR Assault Transport doesn't actually have laser cannons at all, so I've removed them. The ion cannons remain, but I've switched them to light turboion cannons, thus stripping it of all starfighter-scale weaponry. Make sure you escort these in the future.

First off, let me say sorry for not posting in awhile, I haven't really had anything to post about and was waiting for the next news update. Anyways, first off thanks for all the fixes!!!

For the rescaling though, will we still be able to see the ring around the planet that shows which planets you can get to, or is it impossible to increase it????

Also glad that the bombing runs things were fixed, maybe after the patch i'll actually do one :p

Also, I always forgot to say that about the damage control ability, I always wanted that, since that is true canon that ships do repair themselves.

Thank you for also fixing the K-wing, the ATR Assault Transport and MTF with the new canon image of them, I'm glad that you are still staying strictly canon. :p

Thanks again, and sorry for not posting in awhile.

#14 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 07:40 PM

For the rescaling though, will we still be able to see the ring around the planet that shows which planets you can get to, or is it impossible to increase it????

That's really the underlying problem. I don't know of any way to increase that distance, so I have to fill in all the gaps with invisible trade routes. The ring will still be there, but the size never changes with the scale.

#15 Dane Kiet

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 08:06 PM

The Victory is kind of the answer to point-defense, not vice versa. Jamming is really the answer to the Victory, but it's hard to pull off with just A-wings.

Ah, and yes, it IS annoying to try to jam the missles when all I have are a few a-wings close enough to intercept. I'm going to look for a ship of the same class that can go toe-to-toe with a vic and be a fair fight.

Edited by Dane Kiet, 01 February 2008 - 04:33 PM.

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#16 Dalmp

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 08:58 PM

The Victory is kind of the answer to point-defense, not vice versa. Jamming is really the answer to the Victory, but it's hard to pull off with just A-wings.

Ah, and yes, it IS annoying to try to jam the missles when all I have is a few a-wings close enough to intercept. I'm going to look for a ship of the same class that can go toe-to-toe with a vic and be a fair fight.

Speaking of which, what happened to the missile jamming ability of the vanilla interdictor? Taken out for balance reasons? In stock FoC that was one of my favorite ships due only to the jamming. :p
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#17 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 10:22 PM

Speaking of which, what happened to the missile jamming ability of the vanilla interdictor? Taken out for balance reasons?

No, no. I was trying to focus its upgrades on improving gravity well technology in more offensive ways, but the abilities did not translate into space very well. So you may yet see it again, as I have to redo those upgrades.

#18 Pred the Penguin

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 09:54 AM

Nice update. Sounds great!

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#19 RyderV

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:48 PM

I haven't settled on what new ships will be in it yet, but if I do add any, it will indeed largely be for balance purposes. The Viscount's name has come up the most from the fans, but it would be a massive rigging job - and I didn't even finish the MC80s yet (they've only got, what, eight bones?). But the star dreadnought disparity is perhaps only the most obvious one. If you're aware of another missing role, then start a new thread and state your case. I get the impression that the Imperial Fleet is at least more versatile than the Rebel's, but I want to hear how other people feel.

For my two cents I guess I wouldn't be adverse to the Viscount (or something like it), the only reservation I'd have is that the NR does not acquire an edge in both heavy capitals and starfighters out of the deal. Is the Viscount, which seems to be close to the Executor in power already, gonna be close enough that with a nice pile of NR fighters she'll win every matchup? I dunno, I'm too used to the Empire having an edge in big ships with lackluster fighters. Viscount just seems like it might rub every advantage. It'd be nice if she balanced out with the Executor, maybe being slightly weaker to compensate for carrying better NR fighters or something, I dunno... Just hope it doesn't wind up being the mass production Lusankya. Meh, maybe Razor's Kiss will beat 'em both. :p

A couple quick observations for Skirmish that might not have been said yet (sorry if they have),

The AI is not thinking about building mines very much. That might have something to do with the fact that ships draw out their cost, seems like one usually has 0 cash on hand at any given moment. Just a guess, but anyways, the AI never builds mines after the first five minutes or so. Would it be hard to make mines and space structures draw cash during construction instead of requiring it 'up-front'? I dunno if that'd solve it for the AI though or not...

Heroes are quite risky to hire in Skirmish. You could be 90% through one, and an enemy fighter captures the space structure and *poof*, no hero (and no refund as far as I can tell)!

Also, I liked the suggestions to remove the AI bonus damages for hard mode (I think Zarkis and somebody else suggested this somewhere...) Anyways seconded.

Edited by RyderV, 01 February 2008 - 10:49 PM.


#20 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 09:24 PM

For my two cents I guess I wouldn't be adverse to the Viscount (or something like it), the only reservation I'd have is that the NR does not acquire an edge in both heavy capitals and starfighters out of the deal. Is the Viscount, which seems to be close to the Executor in power already, gonna be close enough that with a nice pile of NR fighters she'll win every matchup?

The Viscount can only hold 18 squadrons compared to the 144 of the Executor, however, they are better fighters. But I'm still enforcing the same carrier upgrade rule mainly for that reason, so you'd only be able to get them to the second upgrade level.

The AI is not thinking about building mines very much.

Agreed. I need to track down that script and play with it.

Would it be hard to make mines and space structures draw cash during construction instead of requiring it 'up-front'?

I'm really not sure why they do that. Probably because they're tactical buildables. The streaming payment is a game constant, so it should affect everything, but I guess they forgot about tactical.

Heroes are quite risky to hire in Skirmish. You could be 90% through one, and an enemy fighter captures the space structure and *poof*, no hero (and no refund as far as I can tell)!

That's why they operate on the upgrade queue. But I would prefer it if you couldn't re-capture stations once they've already been captured once, but I'm not sure how to do that (you probably can't).

Also, I liked the suggestions to remove the AI bonus damages for hard mode (I think Zarkis and somebody else suggested this somewhere...) Anyways seconded.

Normal difficulty does this, which I find it too easy. But it's there if you want it.



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