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#1 Shikari

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 08:46 PM

If you are a little confused about all the new elven units being shown off, and don't quite understand their roles atm, hopefully this should make things a bit clearer.

A while back, Vithar Megilaglar, Yodawarrior, Rob and I started discussing possible ideas for making the elven faction more... tolkienlike. The campaign that we are all looking forward to requires a lot of different elven units, as the elven kingdoms are all unique, and to use one set of elven units for each does not do them justice. Vithar and I discussed this a bit further, and thought it would be a shame to not use all these units in a more diverse elven faction, that, hopefully feels a lot more how Tolkien described the elves. So, without further ado, here is a PDF for you to download, which outlines the new changes which are underway for the elves. Note the units are named with beautiful elvish names, though these will only be tooltips, the actual names will be in english, (thank you Vithar ^_^ ) which have a great feel of the books about them, which is certainly nice to get into the game.

Edit: PDF Expired on megaupload, removed.
Edit: This PDF is a bit out of date now, it was made for the beta team before any work was done for the elves. Some things have been changed/improved, but the ideas are more or less the same, so feel free to have a read.

If you haven't used megaupload before, you have to enter a 3 letter security code (Top Right) and then wait 45s before your download is available)
Please read this :p (Sorry I never got around to putting all the pictures in, there are a few placeholders)

Some changes will be made to arnor's elves because of this. (I'll outline these below)

Edit: Since I posted this a huge amount of work has been done implementing these original plans. Please read through this topic to see everything we've been working on :xcahik_:
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The Progress so far...


Finished Units

Mirkwood

Posted Image (Skin by Shikari/Model by robnkarla)
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Posted Image (Skin by EHL and Shikari. HA unit by Robnkarla, HA horse by Shikari & EHL)
Posted Image (Model by Robnkarla with binding help from Rob38. Skin by Shikari)
Posted Image (Model and Weapons by robnkarla, Skin by EHL, Shikari and Robnkarla, Shield Texture by Shikari)
Posted Image (Model and Texture by Shikari) (Fixing Shikari's amateur modelling by Robnkarla :xcahik_:)

Posted Image - Mirkwood HA plating by EHL


Rivendell

Posted Image (Moved from Arnor) (Skin and Model by cahik - BFME+) (Button Image originally by allathar, edited slightly for the new factions)
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Posted Image (Model by Robnkarla, Skin by Shikari)
Posted Image (Skin by Eldarion, Face variations by Shikari)


Lothlorien
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Posted Image (Model by Robnkarla, Skin by EHL and Robnkarla)
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Buildings in Progress

Lothlorien
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Posted Image - Watchtower
Posted Image - Training Flet

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Because arnor is having some units moved away, it is having some new mithlond units added. The first of these is the toggle pike/sword unit that rob showed a few days ago:

Posted Image (Skin by Shikari/Model by robnkarla- HA by EHL and Shikari)

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Elven Siege

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Elven Healers

Posted Image - Skin by EHL



Please post any questions/comments in this topic :xcahik_:

Edited by robnkarla, 05 January 2009 - 09:51 AM.

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#2 Zyzzyva

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:22 PM

Very Nice ^_^ ! Just one quick question: Are all the toggle elites the same, or does each subfaction have a speical elite with a different toggle?
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#3 Devon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:30 PM

Well, just a couple things to say. First, I'd like to repeat my idea that heros of the other minifactions just don't get powers until you purchase them, but can still fight. Second, 2 elite units each seems a bit much. Maybe 2 for starting faction, and 1 for the second two? I assume the elites are noldors with slightly different skins/models? Also, I wouldn't use elvish for unit names. It's too confusing for most people ^_^

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#4 mr_g

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:20 PM

That's a very excellent idea to do that, YES.
And yes, they look more like tolkien describe them, and that's excellent.
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#5 Gothmog14

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 11:52 PM

Ohh brilliant idea, and a very pretty PDF. I have to agree with Yoda though, if you keep Elvish names you're going to have to make their button art VERY clear as to what they do, as most people don't read through the tooltips, and the heroes should have more debuffs than recruit time and recharge time. Like Yoda said; take away their powers or even do not allow them to be recruited entirely (until you buy the other factions that is).

Elites should be weaker than the Noldor that EA had, they were far, far to strong. Hope they look really cool :p. Good to see the Elves are getting revamped ^_^.

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#6 Dalf32

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 12:09 AM

im worried taht it will be confusing for other people (perhaps more casual tolkien fans) but i like it. and the overall idea of the elven subfactions is awesome!

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#7 dojob

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 01:08 AM

I do like the idea of elven subfactions, though perhaps instead of 1 big purchase of another minifac, you tech into the minifacs like you would with the inn system. So for example, you start out with Lothlorien and you decide to tech into Rivendell, but instead of spending more money to get more of the faction, you buy the first tier of Mirkwood, and then the 2nd tier of Mirkwood because you like the archers, etc. Buying whole minifactions is a WoA thing...

And while i'm on the subject of minifacs, they should be more diverse instead of having basically the same tech tree with some variations in names and stats. A few suggestions (I bet others could do better ^_^ ):

-Give marchwardens a toggle to make them unique from Mirkwood rangers, but make them rather weak at both with a low(ish) cost (350, 400). Or, perhaps they could be just as elite as Galadhrim Maethyr but better at ranged, less armor, faster, and weaker in melee. This would emphasize Lorien as a generalistic faction, which is how i think of them (Rivendell specialises in direct fighting while Mirkwood is best at guerrilla tactics).

- Instead of having Noldors be bow/sword toggles, make them sword/spear toggles (or godly sword-only :p ) since Rivendell isn't really an archer faction imo

Edited by dojob, 03 February 2008 - 01:09 AM.

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#8 Devon

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 01:22 AM

They do have a toggle I think ^_^ Theyre reskinned rohan elves, or will be. We also discussed the possibilty of faction specific upgrades, like rivendell armor or galadhrim bows that you can equip the other troops with to make them stronger. Would be a lot of work though...

Edited by YodaWarrior, 03 February 2008 - 02:00 AM.

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#9 dojob

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 01:47 AM

But it would definitely be worth it ^_^
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#10 fehik

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:34 AM

WooooW!!!! It's awesome!!!! I can't believe it. This will be the best elven faction ever created. Great job mates!!!
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#11 Shikari

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 09:09 AM

Instead of having Noldors be bow/sword toggles, make them sword/spear toggles (or godly sword-only ) since Rivendell isn't really an archer faction imo

Very Nice ! Just one quick question: Are all the toggle elites the same, or does each subfaction have a speical elite with a different toggle?

Elites should be weaker than the Noldor that EA had, they were far, far to strong. Hope they look really cool . Good to see the Elves are getting revamped .


The elites will all be toggle units, and definitely not as op as EA's noldors. Yoda's idea of having 2 for the first faction chosen and 1 for each additional is probably better.(Hehe my browser spellchecks noldors to noodles ^_^)

Rivendell's improved unit are swordsmen only.

Give marchwardens a toggle to make them unique from Mirkwood rangers, but make them rather weak at both with a low(ish) cost (350, 400)

Each will be pretty unique, rangers have long range, high damage, stealth, but are very weak, and cannot purchase HA. Marchwardens will have shorter range, lower damage, more health and have the ability to purchase HA.

im worried taht it will be confusing for other people (perhaps more casual tolkien fans) but i like it. and the overall idea of the elven subfactions is awesome!

if you keep Elvish names you're going to have to make their button art VERY clear as to what they do, as most people don't read through the tooltips


We will make the button art extremely clear to make sure of this. Also, the layout of the build menus will be the same for each, (Clockwise) (Swords, Archers, Pikes, Improved Unit, Elite) The elvish tooltips would have english translations underneath in the tooltips.

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#12 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 12:17 PM

Can't wait to see the new release. Nobody has answered me yet, though: does the unofficial 2.02 stack with the current version, or will it stack only with the next version?
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#13 Allathar

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 01:00 PM

This sounds great!
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#14 Devon

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 02:16 PM

Can't wait to see the new release. Nobody has answered me yet, though: does the unofficial 2.02 stack with the current version, or will it stack only with the next version?



Are we sure we're going to make it stack?...

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#15 dojob

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 03:04 PM

Rivendell's improved unit are swordsmen only.


I know that; the Noldor elites are my concern as everybody seems to have an elite sword/bow toggle which isn't interesting or unique.

Each will be pretty unique, rangers have long range, high damage, stealth, but are very weak, and cannot purchase HA. Marchwardens will have shorter range, lower damage, more health and have the ability to purchase HA.


That's not unique enough for me tbh. Mirkwood is the archer/guerrilla minifaction, so they should be the only ones to have a mid-level pure archer. Having marchwardens be a toggle unit would emphasize Lorien as a generalistic faction. It's ok if they're similar to Maethyr because they can still be made different with suggestions that I gave and at least this way, they would better represent Lorien's qualities.

Edited by dojob, 03 February 2008 - 03:04 PM.

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#16 robnkarla

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 06:24 AM

well, I thought I'd do the first of the screenshots of the WIP of the Lothlorien Fortress:

Regular Fortress:
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress01.JPG

Expansion #1
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress02.JPG

Expansion #1 & #2
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress03.JPG

Expansion #1, #2, & #3:
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress04.JPG
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress05.JPG (From the back)

Expansion #1, #2, #3, & #4:
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress06.JPG

All 5 Expansions:
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress07.JPG
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress08.JPG

RJ Camera Shots:
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress09.JPG
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress10.JPG
http://rjrotwk.the3r..._fortress11.JPG

Now to explain a little - each of the 5 expansions have their own tree structure. Regardless of the type of expansion you will get the same tree branches. On those branches you can have the following upgrades:
Garrison/Barracks (Similar to 1, 2, & 5, each one will be a little different and I'll be overhauling these a little)
Galadriel's Light (Similar to upgrade #3, though this one will be more expanded with FX and a glow for fear)
Tower - I need to model a standard Lothlorien Tower and an expansion
Wall hub - Once the walls are done and ready for Lothlorien I'll be adding a wall hub
Siege Temple - Single unit doing long-range damage.

There is still a lot to be done, but here are the first in-game shots.
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#17 Xingdao Fan

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:21 AM

Looks cool. You could have answered my question, though :dry: but if you didn't I guess it's a secret.
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#18 mr_g

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 09:24 AM

ooohhh men, we know who is the boss here!!! and yes you are still the boss Rob.
very very good job, the wait will be long!
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#19 Devon

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 08:27 PM

Wow!

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#20 Dalf32

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 08:33 PM

amazing work! i cant wait

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