20 replies to this topic

[Lord Djibril]

Guys do you think the ZAFT should have defeated the OMNI in the many battles they have face in Gundam Seed Destiny, especially the battle in Heavens Base. The Alliance should have destroyed the Chairman there easily, there were some flaws on how ZAFT won.

[Dark Lord Revan]

Of course ZAFT should have lost at heavens base. But everything later than ep13 in destiny is the product of horrible scripting.

[Soul]

I didn't like how ZAFT pwned OMNI so fast and easy all the time, didn't give me much entertainment .

I'd be better if at least the battles lasted a bit longer.

[Dark Lord Revan]

Especially during the second half of Destiny, technical aspects just dont make any sense at all. I usually have a good grasp of the tech in gundam shows, but Destiny seems to like to contradict itself. We have freedom being able to disrupt a Genesis's positron reflector at the end of the show, destiny running out of energy during the battle for orb, impulse being able to pierce freedom's PS armor with the physical edge of its beam sword, akatsuki's golden armor not being able to repel the high density particle beam edge of destiny's sword but is able to repel the high energy positron particle beam without taking a scratch, and im sure im missing out a whole lot of other stuff.

Strangely enough, despite all the technical contradictions in Destiny, your example isnt one at all. Legend didnt disrupt Freedom's shield, it just overwhelmed Freedom's counter-thrust, causing it to be blasted back.

[Crusader]

I believe a few of those could be explained, somewhat.


Freedom's PS armor being peirced. Usually the PS armor could disperse the impact over a wider area to reduce the damage, but the more energy that's applied to it the harder it is for the system to disperse the energy. eventually the PS armor will be pushed to a point where it can no longer deflect any attacks. The sheer kenitic force that the Impulse applied to the Freedom's PS system from the full speed thrust is probably enough to assume that the PS Armor got overwhelmed.

Same can be said for anti-beam coating. The coating itself is meant to disperse the damage over a large area, however, if too much is applied to one single area the system will fail and damage will be taken.


As for the Akatsuki, well, the coating may be able to stop beam attacks from a projectile range, but not direct proloned physical gamage.
QUOTE from Mecha Anime HQ, dont know if it's completely accurate but it does explain it.
--"Perhaps the most unique feature of the Akatsuki is its "Yata-no-Kagami" anti-beam defensive reflection system, which is coated on the armor. Comprised of many tiny mirrors, the armor coating the Akatsuki to reflect any beam energy fired at it."

tiny mirrors, kinda goes make sense in that aspect, since real mirrors can deflect light, but but if you hit it with something it'll break, I suppose.
btw does the Akatsuki have any PS type defense? it's never been established but it wouldnt make any sense if it didnt, since that'll mean that 1 missile = dead gundam. kinda stupid lol.


As for the positron deflector? I guess one deflector cancels out the other, since when did the Freedom do that? I thought it was the Infinite Justice lol. Although they both have the same equipement which would allow them to.

Just to make things clear, these are my educated guesses, im not 100% sure that I'm right, but at least it makes sense to me lol


But there are probably a few things that cant be explained, for me, it's not exactly technical, but from a more tactical standpoint. Especially with the Heaven's Base battle, Was the Destiny and the Legend the only reasons they won? Though that does seem like a Gundam-ish thing to happen it just seems a bit way too botched. (trying to be nice here so I wont go as far as I want to lol)


I agree with the blast back thing, think about it, having a shield doesnt eliminate attacks completely, you still have to deal with the kinetic forces there.

At least it was a bit better than what we have with 00 now. cant believe I'm saying this but I can call Destiny the 'Good old days' now. 00 is looking really bad lol, although im stillgiving it a chance to redeem itself.

[Dark Lord Revan]

Nononononono. Way No. Gundam 00 has more consistent tech than any point in SEED. Destiny was hell not the good old days. Rewatching some episodes rammed that home for me. hell rewatching Wing did too. Gundam 00 is GOOD...well compared to some others i can think of. I wont even bother talking about non-tech aspects, 00 wins in almost every other area too.

Anyway, I always thought that PS armor did not disperse kinetic damage. If it did, the armor would eventually sustain structural damage, but this doesnt seem to be the case, they only take damage when the armor shuts down entirely. Since the kinetic energy applied seems to affect the duration of the armor operation, im guessing that the PS armor actively counteracts kinetic energy with its own energy somehow. This would prevent the almost all physical damage. Using this theory, ive floated the possiblilty that freedom got stabbed because, like you say, the system got overwhelmed. It doesnt track with me though. Freedom has a nuclear output, way too much energy there if you ask me. Tech consistency therefore takes a hit in favor of bad story.

You're mistaking anti-beam coating for laminated armor. Laminated armor spreads out the energy, anti-beam coating repels it.

My point about akatsuki is that the positron cannon is a concentrated beam of energy that is order's of magnitude above any MS mounted weapon. I would think that the energy transference is higher than that of a beam saber.

Eh, no i wasnt talking about the deflector canceling each other. If you recall either Final PLUS or the special edition movie, at the end since in the original episode, Genesis's deflectors magically disappeared allowing freedom to attack it, in these two versions they were lazy and just showed freedom cutting through the deflectors with the meteor saber. Makes me wonder just what is it about the sabers and swords that can beat any other technology in SEED. Its just not consistent.

[Crusader]

Right lol.
I was thinking more plotline wise, but oh well.

Anyways, Nuclear generator provides a steady stream of un-ending energy. not a near-infinite amount of energy at a single point in time. it will not run out of power, but can be drained for a moment while the generator is replenishing it's supplies. so yes, it can be overwhelmed.


Still, the positron cannon was a projectile beam, not a direct energy application like a beam sabre.

True though, Beam Sabre PWNs all lol

[Lord Djibril]

Well alright, the Strike Freedom's shield was overwhelm, then why did Destiny's shield was not overwhelm by the Super Scylla used by the Destroy against it.

[Stargazer]

One answer:

Fukuda is a fucking moron.

Why are there all these discussions on plotholes in GSD? The simply answer is that Fukuda and his retarded whore of a wife are dumbshits.

[Dark Lord Revan]

We just said, in three different posts that freedom's shield was not overwhelmed. It was blown back by residual kinetic energy. Does anyone pay attention in school science anymore?

Anyways, Nuclear generator provides a steady stream of un-ending energy. not a near-infinite amount of energy at a single point in time. it will not run out of power, but can be drained for a moment while the generator is replenishing it's supplies. so yes, it can be overwhelmed.

I dont think i got my point across. You should have a look at a nuclear generator's output. The energy per second, even if you par it down for a minature model like in freedom, is a huge massive chunk of energy that i have no idea goes where when freedom isnt spamming anything. You'll have to come up with something more than a sword in my opinion. You can think about a nuclear sub, and then you can think about how much damn mass that thing has. Then you'll realise how much energy is being put out.

Still, the positron cannon was a projectile beam, not a direct energy application like a beam sabre.

Unfortunately, the real world does not think in terms of layman's physics, it thinks, in this case, of energy variables. By concentrated, it means that it cant be easily dispersed, so that all of the energy is applied to the target. A positron beam should have so much energy in it that even if it isnt concentrated like a beams saber, the energy directly applied should be equal to or more than that applied by a beam saber.

I can grant that seed is meant more for kids at some points. But all these technical things just irritate the hell out of me.

Before someone tells me that old tired comment that gundam is extremely fantasy, since we can never build a proper mobile suit anyway, i found an obscure article that the US government, in conjunction with japanese engineers of all things, did do some preliminary plans for a MS like military unit. They came up with something a few years ago (about a decade) that works at least up to the level of the tieran in 00. The problem is that it costs too much, something like almost 3 billion for the first model.

Something like battletech, which was theorised even earlier, costs a humble 1 billion compared to it, but the point is that we do actually have the technology to build mechs.

[Crusader]

Well, I guess the best answer is as SG said already lol.


But damn, I wish they'd make a nice Gundam series once in a while.

Here's my vote that they make a Seed Astray series, would be awsome, and the storyline is actually pretty nice lol.

[Dark Lord Revan]

They never will. Networks dont like to stay on one series for too long. And both seed and astray are fading in popularity. It would be too much risk.

When the movie comes out, that might rekindle some seed's pull, but specifically for the main story, not astray.

And remember, just cause the manga is good, doesnt mean the anime would be. The artists and story writers are different, so be careful what you wish for.

[Crusader]

Hey the story should be based on the anime, as a spin-off type, atrists might be different, but I've seen it, they have animated 2 Astray shorts, looked decent enough to air for that matter.

[Dark Lord Revan]

Thats true but it was originally scripted by the guy drawing the manga.

An anime wont have the same person.

Lets take d-gray man for example. The manga gave out a much more dark and gothic feel and world, with fit the theme perfectly. The anime has 70 eps, 35 of which are fillers, a few that i would actually classify as backwards character development since some character's personalities altered slightly for the duration of the fillers, and gives the feel of a happy world with the only bad events being centered around the unfortunate but always cheery main characters.

Not that the anime is actually bad. But you you get my point.

[dafater]

i dunt get it, y u guys keep pointing out how bad GSD is. i mean, pointing out bad animationa is ok, but even the storyline n stuffs like dat, its jus, nut fun. i mean waching anime is jus to......enjoy waching. if u guys compain too much, u will kill the anime in ur heart. but anyway, i still luv GS (n GSD mayb) even its popularity had gone completely. i mean, gundam 00 is kinda disappointing, the fites r disappointing. i mean, in a battle, when the gundams come out, the battle is over in 1 minute (or 2), n the rest of the episode is talking, chat, n speak, then another 1 or 2 minute battle, then bak to talk, chat, n speak. but i gota admit, the HG (1/144) gundam models 4 gundam 00 r good, they can move easier unlike previous 1s, but the anime rly bores me out

[Crusader]

Still, like I said, for Astray, the animators for the short OVA thing did pretty closely follow the manga. and if they ever made a full anime series, it'd follow the storyline, which is what im hoping for.


Storyline is important lol, and the animation style is fine.

[Stargazer]

i dunt get it, y u guys keep pointing out how bad GSD is. i mean, pointing out bad animationa is ok, but even the storyline n stuffs like dat, its jus, nut fun. i mean waching anime is jus to......enjoy waching. if u guys compain too much, u will kill the anime in ur heart. but anyway, i still luv GS (n GSD mayb) even its popularity had gone completely. i mean, gundam 00 is kinda disappointing, the fites r disappointing. i mean, in a battle, when the gundams come out, the battle is over in 1 minute (or 2), n the rest of the episode is talking, chat, n speak, then another 1 or 2 minute battle, then bak to talk, chat, n speak. but i gota admit, the HG (1/144) gundam models 4 gundam 00 r good, they can move easier unlike previous 1s, but the anime rly bores me out

Y U KEEP SPELLINZ SO BADZ?!

[Crusader]

It's true, at least try to spell correctly once in a while.

I can understand if you're short on time, but judging by the length of that post you made you have plenty to spare.



Please, think of the children.

Perfect example below.


Dont let this happen to us, please.

[Dark Lord Revan]

I like to think of it as it is already the case, and us intelligent human beings try to resist the temptation to 1337. Some fail. Most fail, actually.

You know, dafater...you started out by pointing out to us that we should enjoy anime that we watch and all...and then move over to bashing gundam 00. A bit of a contradiction there.

I have every reason to not like GSD now. I only watched it because SEED was good, and i was always hoping for last minute bunny-in-a-hat twists that would save the show.

The animation was, if not bad, mediocre. Stock footage was rampant. Every episode had 5 minutes of flashbacks. The plot became nonsensical towards the end, to the point where i had to re-watch it to understand, rather than re-watch it cause i liked it. The mechanics that stayed largely consistent and interesting in SEED became mechanics that seemed to be Fukuda's next idea for turning GSD into a flashy fireworks show, to hell if it makes sense or remains consistent.

They even admitted they did a piss-poor job of it and made Final PLUS to edit the ending.

I don't care if gundam 00 isn't the best gundam series, but it sure as hell beats GSD in all of these categories.