23 replies to this topic

[Cossack]

According to this recent poll of 17 year old americans...

-20% dont know who America fought in WWII

-Half do not know what Senator McCarthy investigated.

-A quarter could not identify Adolf Hitler.

-Not even half placed the civil war in the correct half-century.

-A third do not know that the bill of rights guarantees the freedom of speach and religion.

-Half do not know what the Renaissance was.

Whether its a willful conspiracy by the government to keep their own people ignorant and easily affected by propaganda, or if its just unwilling negligence, I feel bad for American students....

Education and knowing about the world that surrounds us is very important to me and I regret that so many are missing out on it.

[adummy]

don't feel bad for us. Everything on that list is taught/showed in school. Those that do not know the answers didn't pay attention in school.

[Mastermind]

Whether its a willful conspiracy by the government to keep their own people ignorant and easily affected by propaganda, or if its just unwilling negligence, I feel bad for American students....

Education and knowing about the world that surrounds us is very important to me and I regret that so many are missing out on it.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

[Ash]

Wonder how questionable the sample size was...

[Cheshire Fox]

Willful stupidity. Easily willful stupidity. However, I have to say the people being willfully stupid can't even be entirely blamed, schools are set up so that either you -a. devote your entire life to them and lose most of your social life, or b. actually do stuff with your life but do poorly in school. There's remarkably little middle ground, at least where I live.

[CodeCat]

There also seems to be a thought pattern among many (especially the right) that being an educated intellectual is a sign of abnormality, in favour of hard work and physical exercise. I suppose people being strongly religious might also be a cause, as these people might see education as being simply wrong and contrary to their beliefs and therefore choose to ignore it. Some might even be afraid of education because of their fear that somehow, educated people will scam them because they know more about little details.

I suppose 'Forrest Gump' is a perfect example of that kind of view.

http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States

[Cheshire Fox]

Alright, I have to say I don't think this can be blamed on religion as much. There are plenty of people who are willingly stupid around here, and they're all proud atheists. The only beliefs it really violates of theirs is their commitment to actually enjoying themselves and interacting with other human beings. Also smoking weed.

EDIT: Oh I see, everything you said above was just taken from the wikipedia article.

Edited by Cheshire Fox, 17 March 2008 - 09:07 PM.

[CodeCat]

Just because a source I quoted repeats what I said doesn't mean I didn't say it on my own accord.

[MSpencer]

Coming from an American school system and entering a 75% Canadian school, I can tell you the Canadian system is no better off.
Also you might want to post the conditions of the study. Where did they do this study, sample size, randomization, etc.

[Tom]

Come teach at an English school! Get a chair thrown at you! Free chair throwing for all!

[Hostile]

I watched the US system of education become somewhat wierd. When I was young, you couldn't get away with mouthing off to a teacher. You either made the score or you got a bad grade. You had discipline and order.

Now it seems no one gets a bad grade for fear of making the student feel inferior. Also, teachers can't discipline kids anymore. American geography only applies when there is a war.

Ask an american where Kabul Afghanistan was before we landed troops there. Ask them where Basra was before 40k UK troops showed up there. It's sad but true...

When I grew up in the '80s my teacher would ask where is XXnation and you better be able to point it out on a globe or you had an extra homework assignment (yes one you HAD to complete) and you were made an ass of because you didn't know it.

Now we are such a nanny state, that we are afraid to CHALLENGE the young adult into knowing the info. Now we simply lower the criteria for passing so we don't "hurt the childs self esteem"

Show me a teacher with a paddle and I'll show you a student who can find Moldova on the map and name it's capitol.

There also seems to be a thought pattern among many (especially the right) that being an educated intellectual is a sign of abnormality, in favour of hard work and physical exercise. I suppose people being strongly religious might also be a cause, as these people might see education as being simply wrong and contrary to their beliefs and therefore choose to ignore it. Some might even be afraid of education because of their fear that somehow, educated people will scam them because they know more about little details.

WFT has this cat been smoking. People from the right tend to push for higher education standards. Even religious people tend to push for higher education standards. I would like to think EVERYONE with half a brain would be pushing for higher education standards.

But when bleeding heart left wing liberals take over the education system, like in the US, than maybe you should ask them, why teachers can't discipline kids and why they choose not to enforce grade point systems and why we have to accept teachers teaching about gay marriage (teach math, leave social ethics out of it)

Why does Johnny need to know why Sally has two moms, REALLY. Teach math, science, geography, and not crazy left wing looney crap. In fact why not teach kids how the tax system works in thier area, or teach them how a business runs or better yet, how to start thier own. Than they can get the power of education that the big business knows, as well as free themselves from the restraints of so called "corporate slavery."

But I'm sure you already know about such things right?

[CodeCat]

Show me a teacher with a paddle and I'll show you a student who can find Moldova on the map and name it's capitol.

East of Romania, capital is Chisinau.

[Cheshire Fox]

Actually, my psychotically left wing bio teacher tells us all the time about how our tax system works, thank you very much. My extremely liberal English teacher had no problem grading us exactly how we should be, even if that meant failing people. However, the grade point system is flawed I think, it doesn't really judge people's intelligence or even how much effort they put in accurately at all. However, just be glad wherever you are you never had to take the fuckin MCAS. Worst test ever designed, ruins entire curriculum's.

[Ash]

I watched the US system of education become somewhat wierd. When I was young, you couldn't get away with mouthing off to a teacher. You either made the score or you got a bad grade. You had discipline and order.

Now it seems no one gets a bad grade for fear of making the student feel inferior. Also, teachers can't discipline kids anymore. American geography only applies when there is a war.

Ask an american where Kabul Afghanistan was before we landed troops there. Ask them where Basra was before 40k UK troops showed up there. It's sad but true...

When I grew up in the '80s my teacher would ask where is XXnation and you better be able to point it out on a globe or you had an extra homework assignment (yes one you HAD to complete) and you were made an ass of because you didn't know it.

Now we are such a nanny state, that we are afraid to CHALLENGE the young adult into knowing the info. Now we simply lower the criteria for passing so we don't "hurt the childs self esteem"

Show me a teacher with a paddle and I'll show you a student who can find Moldova on the map and name it's capitol.

There also seems to be a thought pattern among many (especially the right) that being an educated intellectual is a sign of abnormality, in favour of hard work and physical exercise. I suppose people being strongly religious might also be a cause, as these people might see education as being simply wrong and contrary to their beliefs and therefore choose to ignore it. Some might even be afraid of education because of their fear that somehow, educated people will scam them because they know more about little details.

WFT has this cat been smoking. People from the right tend to push for higher education standards. Even religious people tend to push for higher education standards. I would like to think EVERYONE with half a brain would be pushing for higher education standards.

But when bleeding heart left wing liberals take over the education system, like in the US, than maybe you should ask them, why teachers can't discipline kids and why they choose not to enforce grade point systems and why we have to accept teachers teaching about gay marriage (teach math, leave social ethics out of it)

Why does Johnny need to know why Sally has two moms, REALLY. Teach math, science, geography, and not crazy left wing looney crap. In fact why not teach kids how the tax system works in thier area, or teach them how a business runs or better yet, how to start thier own. Than they can get the power of education that the big business knows, as well as free themselves from the restraints of so called "corporate slavery."

But I'm sure you already know about such things right?

Well, thank you for that, Mr. Coulter.

All you were missing was something about God and creationism following your point about Sally's two moms, or perhaps the 'left wing looney crap' bit, and you'd have been right on the money.

Ironically, with the US being as far right-wing as I think any "democratic" nation can actually BE, I would be very amazed if its education system was anything left of centre-right to be perfectly honest.

[Hostile]

No actually India is WAY far to the right as a democracy. Mr Coulter? Now that is funny dude. Funny how you never did address any one point I made. I understand. That's your "style"

[Ash]

I don't have a style. Don't patronise me - your so-called "style" is to bash anything left of centre-right. I just object to your idea that left-wingers, liberals and communists are responsible for all the wrongs in your society or any other. That is the point I was addressing, and it relates quite perfectly to just about every point you (have ever) made, because you usually come out with crap like that.

Yeah, I agree that there should be reforms in education. Yeah, I believe education system's failing us all. But I don't believe the problems were put in place by left wings or liberals. Nor do I believe right-wingers would necessarily be the right people to sort it. Just someone with an ounce of nouse.

Oh, and you're wrong about right-wingers promoting education more than left. It's about the same, I would argue, and it varies across time and location.

[Casen]

Every side of the political spectrum in the U.S.A. constantly says the other side is winning. All the right wingers think the liberals are infiltrating the schools, and the liberals complain about the conservatives infiltrating the schools. It's rather retarded. I see this sort of mentality in other places as well "THE ENEMY IS ALWAYS WINNING!"

In reality I think the problem is not primarily the education system it's the huge swaths of people in the U.S.A. who just do not give two shits about learning. I'm serious, so many people in my school don't pay attention nor care. Granted I go to a school for kids with mental disorders like O.C.D. and A.D.H.D., and I haven't been to a public school since 2000, but this is my experience. People here just generally do not care to learn about things they are not interested in.

[CIL]

It's worse where I live... I have to put up with stupid people! My state, Arizona, has one of the lowest average IQ'S in the country. I think it would be even lower without people like my friends and myself. It makes me sad and sick. I would gladly stop playing video games if I knew how I could help. I'm currently 15 and taking some college courses. Some of my college classmates can't even tell me the things in your first post (stuff I already know but quiz them on anyways). I want some form of genetic enhancement so that everyone is a genius... and learns like a computer. And then there's Bush. Him and his idiot cabinet are killing our country. Education probably better under Reagan and as far as I know, he SUCKED!

Edited by Crazy Intellectual Liberal, 06 April 2008 - 09:55 AM.

[MSpencer]

It's worse where I live... I have to put up with stupid people! My state, Arizona, has one of the lowest average IQ'S in the country. I think it would be even lower without people like my friends and myself. It makes me sad and sick. I would gladly stop playing video games if I knew how I could help. I'm currently 15 and taking some college courses. Some of my college classmates can't even tell me the things in your first post (stuff I already know but quiz them on anyways). I want some form of genetic enhancement so that everyone is a genius... and learns like a computer. And then there's Bush. Him and his idiot cabinet are killing our country. Education probably better under Reagan and as far as I know, he SUCKED!

1. IQs are stupid. They measure someone's ability to do math, not their ability to learn or to process information.
Also, the vast majority of IQ tests are either too easy or too difficult, and very few people actually take them authentically and under the prescribed conditions, probably less than 10%.
2. You don't want genetic enhancements to make people smarter in high school. There's no gene that encodes "smartness," it's a developmental thing. Some genes tied to myelin could be modified, but the brain is an extremely complex system and a bit too much myelin could cause complete inhibition of electrical signals in neurons. Modifying K2+/Na+ ATPase antiporters would be stupid; it could create a more electrically dynamic system which transmits information faster, but it could also kill you... quickly. Bad idea to play with neurologically active genes. Oh, it also involves aborting a lot of babies, and the religious right hates that.
3. Some personal advice, be humble.

[Phil]

3. Some personal advice, be humble.

I'd highlight that point. Immense stupidity may be annoying, but arrogance is quite worse in my eyes.