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Poll: Assault Spider (13 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you for making AS weaker or not?

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#1 soho

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:10 PM

Im definitly against.
Reasons that I mentioned in suggestion forum.

#2 olli

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:23 PM

The chain guns will be removed.
It will be made slightly smaller.


I shall introduce you to a concept called balance.

Go check out the Cyber general screenshots in the Pictures area. It was posted and made a while ago, but Cyber has a new mech, called "The Iron man." It has 2 chain guns (the same as the assult spider) 2 sniper cannons, and siege spider missiles.

It is used to bridge the gap between the Fanfir and the Spiders. However, it would be very unbalanced if both the Ironman and Assult spider had chain guns, because of the damage they do, and considereing how earler you can get the Spiders. The assult spiders in the next version will be more specialised in anti tank roles. Where as the Ironman will have the chain guns and be an all round heavy mech.
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#3 soho

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:38 PM

Didnt know for that new unit.
But I rather to do not implement Iron Man and only increase cost of AS.Maybe to 1800$ or 2000$.
In my opinion that IM not needed.
Making AS specialised vs tanks only?Why you just dont train Tank Hunter robo?

#4 Phoenix911

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 10:59 PM

Cos spider can walk over cliffs and such that other mechs can't so u can be sneakier and there faster.
And i vote yes but i clicked no without watching what i was doing.

So it should be 2to1 to yes.
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#5 soho

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Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:05 PM

Considering time and money that you need to get AS available its reasonable to be powerful.In eariler game you have tank and man hunters.

#6 olli

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:24 PM

Didnt know for that new unit.
But I rather to do not implement Iron Man and only increase cost of AS.Maybe to 1800$ or 2000$.
In my opinion that IM not needed.
Making AS specialised vs tanks only?Why you just dont train Tank Hunter robo?


The Iron man is to bridge the gap between the Asult spider anf the Fanfir. There is absolutly no comparing a Fanfir to an Assult spider, as 1 Fanfir can take on 3-4 Assult spiders with devestating effects.(the FanFir winning) Where as If it were the Ironman mechs, the Iron man would win.

Be happy that cyber has a new cool toy to play with. IT has the same plus more weapons as the assult spider, and the assult spider is only getting its chain guns taken away.

It's for balance.
Also... The rocket troopers are infantry. what are they crap against? Anti infantry weapons....
What is anti infantry weak against? Armour.......
So the Spider will be awsome against Tanks, and with anti infantry weapons doing minimal damage to them. Infantry is what they will be weak against. That is where the Iron man, an allround mech comes into play.

it's only a very small balance change and will not really make any difference. IF you are playing Robo and attacking, you should not be attacking with one unit, but with a large mix (infantry, artillery planes etc) so the only thing the spiders can attack are Air units and infantry. Which is what the Iron man can do, which will support the Spiders as they go along.
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#7 morsematten

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 02:03 PM

frankly, i dont care about balance. just as long as the machine works, i'm fine.
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#8 olli

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 08:12 PM

frankly, i dont care about balance.


It's the most important part of the game.

Balance is what makes any RTS good. If it was imbalanced it would be stupid, there would be no RTS, it would be an "explosion simulator" (Copywright Huzegun) and a complete spam fest of the same factions which are the best.
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#9 morsematten

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 01:42 PM

ar, but if all factions were inbalanced, then it would be balanced as a result of the inbalance. just a thought...
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#10 ApOcOlYpS

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 02:46 PM

I said it needs to be weaker. Honestly, you're safe with an army of them against everything. They have aanti armor cannons, anti infantry MGs, and aa rockets. Their original weakness was that they didn't have much armor, so they died easily. But they tore everything up, or at least were protected from it. The game is ment to be used with a group of units doing certain roles, and the assault spider fills all of them at the moment.

#11 soho

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 03:06 PM

Well for me solution is to increase AS cost to 2000$.
In that way you cant mass them easily because high cost.

#12 Allied General

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 07:45 AM

high cost doesn't work when people have spammed war factories and have a decent economy.

having a weakness which other units can exploit is more ideal because it encourages you to mix units

i.e. it doesn't become predator spam like cnc3
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#13 olli

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Posted 28 April 2008 - 05:42 PM

Well for me solution is to increase AS cost to 2000$.
In that way you cant mass them easily because high cost.

What the fuck is an increase in $200 going to do? If you going to make it balanced by money, it needs to be at least double, if not more, the origional price.
The reason you don't want the chain guns to go, is because you play against the AI omly. You want the strongest army to kill the AI with, and the best units, so that your units can win all the firefights. Every single modded faction is capable of crushing a Hard Robot AI, even on large maps when it is the most lethal.


Also, don't forget the chain guns on the spider target Air units aswell, and absolutly tear them to peices, faster then a gattling cannon.
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#14 soho

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 01:44 PM

I said to 2000$.AS cost now is 1050$.So if you increase to 2000 thats alwost double.

#15 morsematten

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 03:13 PM

here's my take. you can either stick to AS and increase the price to say, $4000, or you split the AS into two seperate things, which i think pend is intending to do. but since pend has chosen the 2nd path, no harm trying.
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#16 Phoenix911

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:41 PM

Balance is as olli put it very importent.
We don't want all sides to be a carbon copy of one another sure and 1 side will always have a weakness to another side IE: napalm gen has the advantage over infantry.
The trick is to get it so that all the sides have there place, in contra 3 awhile ago you remember the nuke general?
Altho some may say it was balanced it was not that gen could walk over any team and its retaliator defenses were just evil.
So its very important to have unique sides that play using there own tactics but at the same time can't just pawn anything and every general with no weaknesses.
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#17 Pendaelose

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Posted 29 April 2008 - 10:42 PM

This is the deal for Robot General...

He's going to become a little bit more specialized. Fewer units will be good at everything, and many units will become better at one job.

Late game brute force Mech attacks will rely on the IronMan. Its a cool mech, a nice model. The weapons are effective vs nearly all ground units and structures. The Assault Spider is being downgraded to an Anti-Tank and Anti-Air. It will be smaller, and have less armor, but will remain a choice unit for sneaking into a base by climbing an unprotected cliff. The Siege Spider is being reqorked to be less effective vs buildings, but will be more effective vs tanks. It will do armor peircing damage (instead of explosive damage) and will track moving vehicles.

I'm also seriously considering making adv robots and adv mechs mutualy exclusive. If I do this you can expect more high end small units, such as aircraft that deploy spider mines, or long range drone deploying units... infact, some of these may come around either way.
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#18 Phoenix911

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 10:44 AM

I vote for my mobile apc stormtrooper launching pod unit >.> lol
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#19 ApOcOlYpS

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:05 AM

That would be fun...having a cluster bomber that dropped a bunch of spider mines instead of bombs, or having like a large bomber that dropped storm troopers. BTW, can the spider mines get like a deploy button so they don't move, but still explode when enemies get near? Or, if that won't work, give them a tiny guard area. That way they won't go far when you want them to just kill close range ppl.

Oh, and for robot gen, he can get REALLY quickly promoted by using leaches on captured tech buildings. I mean, 5 stars in like 2 min.

#20 Phoenix911

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 10:22 PM

Um i have not used spider mines for quite a long time.... However if i remember they have a switch in the task bar to set them to act as normal mines or to act as spider mines, so if you want to use them as normal mines then switch them so they wont move to engage.
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