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Petro-Gamers Roundtable Discussion


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#1 Banshee

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Posted 13 May 2008 - 03:20 PM

Petro-Gamers.com has launched a new feature at their site called Roundatble Discussion where they invite some people who contribute to the Petroglyph community and get their honest answers from a couple of questions.


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In this edition, the following people participated:

* Sonic - Petro-Gamers Webmaster
* Saracen - Petro-Gamers Co-Webmaster
* Foshjedi2004 - UAW Files Webmaster
* Kelathin - Petrolution Staff
* Elegy - GameReplays.org
* Banshee - Petrolution Contributer
* Duke - Petrolution Leader
* Mastermind - Revora Network Leader


We have all shared our opinions on topics like Universe at War as a franchise, Adam Isgreen, Petroglyph's & True Games and the Petroglyph community. Click HERE to read it and post your thoughts in a reply (guest post allowed).
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#2 Duke

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 04:03 AM

Looking at that list of names - show's how much influence the Petrolution team have in the community.

#3 Banshee

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Posted 14 May 2008 - 09:00 PM

Yea, 4 out of 8 ;) (Revora also counts, specially he actually owns the petrolution domain ;)).
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#4 Kelathin

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Posted 18 May 2008 - 02:35 AM

I actually put Petroglyph Forum Administrator first, but he choose my second less reknown title :(

I should of put, Master of the UaW Multiplayer

#5 Banshee

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Posted 19 May 2008 - 12:24 AM

He has choosen the correct thing. This is a fan roundtable from people from the Petroglyph community. Petroglyph forums is an official place, not a fan site community. Also, even with your and MM's administrative powers at Petroglyph forums, you two do not represent them at all.
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#6 Drieick

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 08:58 AM

In response to question 4, here are my thoughts, quoted from my blog (can't link since it has adult content :p):

Why is the Empire at War community dying?
It is an old game, yes. From memory, it's about 2 years old. I've always wondered why it's being slowing down; I've noticed that it's now grinding to a halt. While fan sites such as Petrolution and Petro-Gamers are centered around Petroglyph games, which is a smart idea, why the halt all of a sudden?

I'm what's called a "lurker;" I come and go when I please, without notice, and I watch from the "shadows." I've noticed several things that get on my nerves:

People complain about no SDK - uhhh... why should there be a SDK? It's only XML and Lua, why ask for an SDK to modify such a simple markup and scripting language? The only tools that are required would be the map editor (and everything else Petroglyph has released) and Mike.NL's tools. That's it.

A large amount of amateurs - this one annoys me the most about the community: a bunch of amateurish ninnies without any sense of social ethics. I mean, it's alright to ask how to install a mod, but please ask at the right place. While every community has these, but I've never seen it this bad before.

Everyone's afraid to try something new - here's a short list of projects I've worked on: tactical trading posts and ships, infantry that can do hand-to-hand combat (I actually got this one to work - no animations, dammit!), army morale (not done), being able to upgrade your Dark Troopers in-game without having to call in another squad, and a Company of Heroes-style duck-and-cover. Most of these have failed. I've noticed that almost every single mod just adds new units and/or factions - does anyone realize how redundant this is? Try something new! Be creative! (Pheonix Rising simply adds new units, but they're polished and more canonical, which makes his mod somewhat of an exception; let's not forget his tech tree). People are either afraid, don't know where to start or don't talk about their experiments.

Desperation - now that the community is grinding to a halt, people are getting desperate. Just look at the recent maps that people are submitting on EAWFiles.com - how many of them are even commendable, in terms of creativity? The space maps, especially, look like they were done in no less than 10 minutes.

Limited game engine - it's underestimated, is what it is. Yes, it doesn't stand a chance against today's game engine, yes, it's more limited than other game engines from it's time, yes, it's difficult to debug. But it's underestimated. It's not as limited as people assume; it just requires more work and loopholes.

That's all I've noticed. I don't mean to sound disrespectful in any way, this is just what I've been observing.


Let the flame war debate begin!

Edited by Drieick, 23 May 2008 - 08:59 AM.


#7 Banshee

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Posted 24 May 2008 - 06:34 PM

Why is the Empire at War community dying?
It is an old game, yes. From memory, it's about 2 years old. I've always wondered why it's being slowing down; I've noticed that it's now grinding to a halt. While fan sites such as Petrolution and Petro-Gamers are centered around Petroglyph games, which is a smart idea, why the halt all of a sudden?


2 years old is not old, really. I've seen many stronger communities with older games than that. The 3rd Age is a good sample.


I'm what's called a "lurker;" I come and go when I please, without notice, and I watch from the "shadows." I've noticed several things that get on my nerves:

People complain about no SDK - uhhh... why should there be a SDK? It's only XML and Lua, why ask for an SDK to modify such a simple markup and scripting language? The only tools that are required would be the map editor (and everything else Petroglyph has released) and Mike.NL's tools. That's it.


Peharps you also need to export models from 3ds max and other modelling programs, create maps for UAW and few other things that the Petroglyph modding tools will allow.

A large amount of amateurs - this one annoys me the most about the community: a bunch of amateurish ninnies without any sense of social ethics. I mean, it's alright to ask how to install a mod, but please ask at the right place. While every community has these, but I've never seen it this bad before.


Every community has a large amount of ammateurs. There is no where to run.

The thing is that you need to have places where you share information with others and people help each other to improve. I had good experiences with this in Command & Conquer modding communities.


Everyone's afraid to try something new - here's a short list of projects I've worked on: tactical trading posts and ships, infantry that can do hand-to-hand combat (I actually got this one to work - no animations, dammit!), army morale (not done), being able to upgrade your Dark Troopers in-game without having to call in another squad, and a Company of Heroes-style duck-and-cover. Most of these have failed. I've noticed that almost every single mod just adds new units and/or factions - does anyone realize how redundant this is? Try something new! Be creative! (Pheonix Rising simply adds new units, but they're polished and more canonical, which makes his mod somewhat of an exception; let's not forget his tech tree). People are either afraid, don't know where to start or don't talk about their experiments.


I agree, but this is one of the many things. Sometimes other engines are more interesting to try new things. Or you may have the problem of having your project become totally unknown in the internet for lack of sites covering it and lack of fans. The problem is very complex.


Desperation - now that the community is grinding to a halt, people are getting desperate. Just look at the recent maps that people are submitting on EAWFiles.com - how many of them are even commendable, in terms of creativity? The space maps, especially, look like they were done in no less than 10 minutes.


No offense to the FileFront guys, but this is FileFront. They accept any kind of crap.

Limited game engine - it's underestimated, is what it is. Yes, it doesn't stand a chance against today's game engine, yes, it's more limited than other game engines from it's time, yes, it's difficult to debug. But it's underestimated. It's not as limited as people assume; it just requires more work and loopholes.


EAW is very limited. So far UAW is actually looking to be better than the C&C3 engine, to be honest. We are just waiting for the tools.
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#8 Drieick

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 01:40 AM

Ah, refreshing.

2 years old is not old, really. I've seen many stronger communities with older games than that. The 3rd Age is a good sample.

Link doesn't work. Though, I see what you mean (StarCraft being another example, which I unsurprisingly forgot about...)

Perhaps you also need to export models from 3ds max and other modelling programs, create maps for UAW and few other things that the Petroglyph modding tools will allow.


Forgot about that, heh.

#9 Banshee

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 01:45 AM

I've fixed the link.
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