20 replies to this topic

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Because apparently energy can not be created or destroyed only converted into different types. But if something is high up it has gravitational potential energy because gravity is acting on it. If you convert that gravitational potential energy into electricity the object will still have gravity affecting it and thus will still have gravitational potential energy, ergo unlimited power.

[Mastermind]

How exactly are you going to just magically convert potential energy into electricity?

Oh, and if conservation of energy is true, then converting the potential energy into electricity, while retaining the potential energy would obviously require creating new energy, which you've said is impossible.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

yes but what I'm saying is that the potential energy would automatically be replaced because gravity is still acting upon it.

[Mastermind]

But if the potential energy is still there, where did the electrical energy come from?

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Ok I'll try to make you see what I'm saying:

1) High object with potential energy
2) Potential energy converted to electricity
3) High object with no potential energy
4) Gravity acts upon object so object now has potential energy

[CodeCat]

And how exactly are you going to convert potential energy into electricity without making the object lose potential energy?

[duke_Qa]

get portal gun, make some giant tube with water flowing through a generator at the bottom, profit.... or would it ultimately cause the destabilization of the earth's trajectory because we are stealing energy from its gravity?

anyway, trying to bring back low-value energy to a more useful medium is, as far as we know, just waste of high-value energy. We can turn lead into gold, but it's not worth it

[CodeCat]

get portal gun, make some giant tube with water flowing through a generator at the bottom, profit.... or would it ultimately cause the destabilization of the earth's trajectory because we are stealing energy from its gravity?

You know, I had thought of that before. If you put two portals above each other, you'd get a wind tunnel. But eventually the continuous force acting on earth from the air particles would cause it to be lodged from orbit.

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

what I'm saying is that the object does lose potential energy. However, potential energy is created because gravity is acting on something and gravity would still be acting on the object thus the object gains potential energy.

[Ash]

Potential energy is something of a misnomer to confuse GCSE-level physics students. Something with potential energy doesn't actually have energy at all - the idea is that if an object with gravitational energy were allowed to fall, it would have n Joules of kinetic energy (where n is the number of Joules it would have). It's a hypothetical energy based on the object's mass and the distance it has to fall before it hits the centre of the world. It's basically Isaac Newton's swapfile. Until the object falls, it has no energy whatsoever. If/when it does fall, the idea is that it would fall with nJ of energy.

The energy that would be gained from the falling object would inevitably be being used to push the object back up, thus keeping it in a state of permanent equilibrium and producing no excess.

It is true that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but no conversion of energy into one form or another is 100% efficient. Even if your hypothetical infinite-energy solution were even possible, it would fail because so much of its energy would be lost in a) keeping it suspended and b) as heat or sound or whatever.

Edited by Ash, 28 May 2008 - 04:22 PM.

[Mastermind]

Ok I'll try to make you see what I'm saying:

1) High object with potential energy
2) Potential energy converted to electricity
3) High object with no potential energy
4) Gravity acts upon object so object now has potential energy

I know exactly what you're saying, I was trying to get you to see how what you were saying was wrong based on what you yourself said. It didn't work, and there is a much better explanation of potential energy now than I was willing to waste time typing up.

[CodeCat]

To add on to that though: Potential energy is still energy, because if it were not the conservation of energy would be violated. But think of this situation:

You are holding a box as you climb a mountain. As you climb higher, the potential energy of the box inside the gradient of gravity increases. Where does that energy come from? From the work you performed on the box as you lift it higher. Eventually, you've reached a certain height. Now if you dropped the box and let it fall down again, the work you performed will be turned into kinetic energy by earth's gravity. As the box falls, most of its kinetic energy will be turned into heat. And when the box hits the ground, the energy will be transferred to the Earth as well as more heat.

What if there's no gravity? You need a force to be able to perform work. And when you lift the box, you exert a force to counter gravity. Without gravity, you need no force to lift the box and therefore perform no work while it is moved to the top of the mountain.

[Hecthor Doomhammer]

Energy is eternal and shall always be.
There is no limit to energy nor to the power it can create

[Elvenlord]

Yeah, don't revive a long dead topic unless you actually have something useful to say.

[Ash]

Oh teh noes! Itz teh necromancerz!

[Pasidon]

Necromancers convert N16 into energy. Cheaters!

(Since we're back on course) Sure, the Universe has a fixed amount of energy. Suns and planets are just collections of atoms that floated through space that met up and can live in a symbiotic sphere of matter. Well... most planets. Some skipped a thousand steps and just broke off of other planets and formed their own. Until we prove that theory wrong, we scientists will still be saying it.

Where did the atoms come from?

Don't you dare say the Butterfly Effect! More plausible than the Big Bang, but still...

There... elaborated. Topic dead again.

Edited by {IP}Pasidon, 10 November 2009 - 11:54 PM.

[some_weirdGuy]

I got a momentary chuckle when i first saw this post and ash was the latest posted. Just the fact that someone necro'd this thread and then someone from the undead user group made a post.

Atoms were created when the universe settle down enough so that they didn't get destroyed the instant they were created. They were being created even before then but the forces just ripped them apart straight away.

or something like that.

[Ash]

I got a momentary chuckle when i first saw this post and ash was the latest posted. Just the fact that someone necro'd this thread and then someone from the undead user group made a post.

LOL. That's the beginnings of a standing joke, right there! I'll keep it in mind for future necroposters.

[Vortigern]

If you could generate energy from links to TVTropes, Ash would be powering this country.

[Ash]

This sounds like a job for science!