30 replies to this topic

[A1Dasdfsdkli4r2]

Okay, Phoenix asked me to do this a couple months ago, and I finally finished it. I also nabbed the names of most of the star destroyers too. Also All fighter/bomber numbers do not include garrisoned units.

The Obra-Skai raid
Imperials: Pellaeon and Thrawn (in Chimera), 1 TIE fighter wing (36 TIE Fighters,24 TIE Interceptors, 12 TIE Bombers)
Rebels: 4 Dodonna class Assult frigates, 3 wings of X-wings (108 X-wings)

Bfpassh
Imperials: Chimera (with Thrawn and Pelleaon), 4 Star Destroyers
Rebels:2 and half X-wing squadrons (It only mentions 18), 2 carracks, 8 unknown ships, "Planetary Crusiers" unkown number.

Sluis Van
Imperials:22 Star destroyers (Unknown if that number includes the Chimera), 12 Strike-Class Crusiers, 22 Carracks, 30 TIE fighter squadrons, 1 Class A Bulk trasport
Rebels: 1 Escort Frigate (MC80 or CC9600), Rouge Squadron, Luke, Han and Chewie in the Millenium Falcon

Katana Fleet Location
Imperials: 2 Star Destroyers
Rebels:Quenfis with cpt. Virgilio,Borsk Fey'la and Leia, Luke (in X-wing), Millenium Falcon with Han and Chewie, Rouge Squadron, Peregrine, 2 dreadnaughts, 1 badly damaged dreadnought, the Wild Karrde(?)

Ukio
Imperials:Chimera, 10 Dreadnaughts, 1 Star Destroyer
Rebels: nothing

Filve
Imperials: 1 Star Destroyer, 8 Dreadnaughts
Rebels:Liea and Han in Falcon, Rouge Squadron

Qat Chrystac
Imperials: 2 Victory Crusiers, 20 Star Destroyers/Dreadnaughts, 2 dreadnaughts for sure
Rebels: Rouge Squadron, Garm Bel Iblis, 15 Capital Ships, 1 A-wing Squadron

Coruscant
Imperials: Chimera, 8 Interdictors, 6 Star destroyers, several dreadnaughts, 2 Victory Crusiers, Other support ships
Rebels: 2 Golan III, 1 Dreadnaughts, at least 2 X-Wing and B-wing squadrons(2 each), Some DP-20's, Some Escort Frigates, Garm Bel Iblis


Xa Fel
Imperials: ISD Chimaera, 2 SDs, 3 Strike Cruisers, 3 Dreadnoughts
Rebels: Frigate?

Bilbrinigi
Imperials:Chimera, 4 Golan IIs, 10 Star Destroyers, 4 Strike crusiers, 2 Interdictors, 2 dreadnaughts
Rebels: Rouge Squadron, Home One, 2 Assult Frigates, 3 Mon Calimari Captial ships (unkown type)

Of course all of this is open to speculation. Also this is only the known number of units, most likely there are more of them than this because Sluis Van appears completly undefended according to this. Also I don't put Karrde in here because he isn't a Hero in the game yet

Edited by Ba Boracus, 15 January 2009 - 03:42 PM.

[Kitkun]

I never did read the whole Thrawn series, but offhand, I think a NR fighter wing is half the size of an Imp wing.

[Kaleb Graff]

It is. I did some research on that, and a NR wing is 36 ships. Also, Kitkun, you really need to read those books.

[keraunos]

Post-Yavin Imperial Wing (typical ISD's offensive force) included 1 TIE Bomber, 2 TIE Interceptors and 3 TIE Fighters squadrons, total 72. Kaleb, where did you find this info on 36 starfighters/NR wing?

Also, Ba Boracus, what are your sources? Even looking into comic series (only visual depiction I can think of) shows many more units in various battles...

Kitkun, I wholly agree with Kaleb, whole Thrawn trilogy is a must; actually, I consider it most mature of all SW-fiction up to this date. Realistic, plausible, yet still very 'cinematic'. Pity that we don't have any movies from this era

[Kitkun]

The 36 number is... uhm... around. I can't think of one off the top f my head, but I've never really seen any contradictions to it.
I think he's going by the books. You wanna count that many fighters and bombers?
Pah, my bookstores and library are pathetic. Heck, for 6 months, we didn't even have libraries.

[Tropical Bob]

You forgot to mention a shit-ton of other ships at Bilbringi. That was the major battle of the entire Thrawn campaign.

I'm not sure of most of the ships, but I know there were at least two Imperial Interdictors present.

[A1Dasdfsdkli4r2]

Post-Yavin Imperial Wing (typical ISD's offensive force) included 1 TIE Bomber, 2 TIE Interceptors and 3 TIE Fighters squadrons, total 72. Kaleb, where did you find this info on 36 starfighters/NR wing?

Also, Ba Boracus, what are your sources? Even looking into comic series (only visual depiction I can think of) shows many more units in various battles...

My sources are the book version of the Thrawn Trilogy. I never buy Comic books, they make me feel too geeky... and even if I did want to buy them I doubt I could find them anyway.
If you can get me accurate unit numbers (and pictures, if possible) I'll add them into the unit numbers above.
Aslo Tropical Bob, I know I missed a lot from Bilbringi, I'll reread it when I get the chance.

[Kaleb Graff]

Post-Yavin Imperial Wing (typical ISD's offensive force) included 1 TIE Bomber, 2 TIE Interceptors and 3 TIE Fighters squadrons, total 72. Kaleb, where did you find this info on 36 starfighters/NR wing?

Also, Ba Boracus, what are your sources? Even looking into comic series (only visual depiction I can think of) shows many more units in various battles...

Kitkun, I wholly agree with Kaleb, whole Thrawn trilogy is a must; actually, I consider it most mature of all SW-fiction up to this date. Realistic, plausible, yet still very 'cinematic'. Pity that we don't have any movies from this era

It came from the NR unit stats on fighter wings from Cracken's Threat Dossier. (Actually, I got it from the SWRPGNetwork conversion, but so what?) In case you haven't noticed, I'm an RPG player.

[keraunos]

My sources are the book version of the Thrawn Trilogy. I never buy Comic books, they make me feel too geeky... and even if I did want to buy them I doubt I could find them anyway.
If you can get me accurate unit numbers (and pictures, if possible) I'll add them into the unit numbers above.
Aslo Tropical Bob, I know I missed a lot from Bilbringi, I'll reread it when I get the chance.

Thx. I treat comic books (as well as RPG books, various guides etc.) as an additional reference, as we don't have too much insight into the subject :( I never bothered to count each ship in trilogy, as it was clear to me that those battles were massive, and otherwise brilliant Zahn never bothered to focus on tactics, presenting to us single heroes' tales...

It came from the NR unit stats on fighter wings from Cracken's Threat Dossier. (Actually, I got it from the SWRPGNetwork conversion, but so what?) In case you haven't noticed, I'm an RPG player.

Hmm, that's something I'm unfamiliar with :( RPG 6? If so, I'm too young for this I only managed to catch d20s

[Kaleb Graff]

My sources are the book version of the Thrawn Trilogy. I never buy Comic books, they make me feel too geeky... and even if I did want to buy them I doubt I could find them anyway.
If you can get me accurate unit numbers (and pictures, if possible) I'll add them into the unit numbers above.
Aslo Tropical Bob, I know I missed a lot from Bilbringi, I'll reread it when I get the chance.

Thx. I treat comic books (as well as RPG books, various guides etc.) as an additional reference, as we don't have too much insight into the subject :( I never bothered to count each ship in trilogy, as it was clear to me that those battles were massive, and otherwise brilliant Zahn never bothered to focus on tactics, presenting to us single heroes' tales...

It came from the NR unit stats on fighter wings from Cracken's Threat Dossier. (Actually, I got it from the SWRPGNetwork conversion, but so what?) In case you haven't noticed, I'm an RPG player.

Hmm, that's something I'm unfamiliar with :( RPG 6? If so, I'm too young for this I only managed to catch d20s

I treat the RPGs as good sources, because of hard numbers. Still, I have to disagree on Zahn, as he showed us the battle through the hero's eyes. CTD is a D6 book, and I don't have it, just the conversion. Actually, I haven't played D6, just a lot of D20.

[keraunos]

I treat the RPGs as good sources, because of hard numbers. Still, I have to disagree on Zahn, as he showed us the battle through the hero's eyes. CTD is a D6 book, and I don't have it, just the conversion. Actually, I haven't played D6, just a lot of D20.

I agree on hard numbers. Even better, in D20 we have both classical and new trilogy units, which gives best comparison.

Zahn doesn't show us actual battle - he shows us only 'tricks' that either side (usually NR) achieve victory. No hard numbers (except maybe battle over remnants of Catana Fleet), no actual ship to ship combat maneouvres analysys etc. That's what I'd call tactics, and we certainly don't have it in Zahn's books.

[Kaleb Graff]

I treat the RPGs as good sources, because of hard numbers. Still, I have to disagree on Zahn, as he showed us the battle through the hero's eyes. CTD is a D6 book, and I don't have it, just the conversion. Actually, I haven't played D6, just a lot of D20.

I agree on hard numbers. Even better, in D20 we have both classical and new trilogy units, which gives best comparison.

Zahn doesn't show us actual battle - he shows us only 'tricks' that either side (usually NR) achieve victory. No hard numbers (except maybe battle over remnants of Catana Fleet), no actual ship to ship combat maneouvres analysys etc. That's what I'd call tactics, and we certainly don't have it in Zahn's books.

Somewhat agree on Zahn, but he's better at large battles then many authors. Still, I think that he's by far the best Star Wars author. Also, it's Katana, not Catana.

[Pomerancak]

Is this a lits of ships that take part in specific battles? If no then pls dont even continue reading

If yes then i think Chimera wasnt in Katana location in time of battle. There were two IDSs, Peremptory and Judicator.
And about the battle of Bilbrinigi, there were much more ships on both sides. Full fleets i think.

[Kaleb Graff]

Is this a lits of ships that take part in specific battles? If no then pls dont even continue reading

If yes then i think Chimera wasnt in Katana location in time of battle. There were two IDSs, Peremptory and Judicator.
And about the battle of Bilbrinigi, there were much more ships on both sides. Full fleets i think.

It is. And you're right on the Katana battle

[A1Dasdfsdkli4r2]

Okay, I've ben traveling for the past few weeks, but now I'm cought up. I'll change some of the Katana Fleet stuff, But Can someone with the Comic Books please, please, Get some more numbers on the units at Bilbringi?





edit: I'm a grammar Nazi

Edited by Ba Boracus, 10 June 2008 - 05:22 PM.

[keraunos]

Ok, I just gave comic series a quick look, and here is what I gathered (bold - info changed)

The Obra-Skai raid
Imperials: Pellaeon and Thrawn (in Chimera), 1 TIE fighter wing (more likely standard ISD compartment: 36 TIE Fighters, 24 TIE Interceptors, 12 TIE Bombers)
Rebels: 4 Assult frigates (Assault Frigates Mk.I, which in PR translates into Dodonna-class Frigates), 3 wings of X-wings (108 X-wings)

Bfpassh
Imperials: Chimera (with Thrawn and Pelleaon), 4 Star Destroyers, CONFIRMED (accompanying TIEs as well)
Rebels:2 and half X-wing squadrons (It only mentions 18), 2 carracks, 8 unknown ships, "Planetary Crusiers" unkown number. only some Y-wings shown

Sluis Van
Imperials:22 Star destroyers (Unknown if that number includes the Chimera) (Chimaera+at least 4 other ISDs), 12 Strike-Class Crusiers, 22 Carracks, (none visible) 30 TIE fighter squadrons (again, probably more), 1 Action IV transport (1 cloaked A-Class bulk freighter, looking like nothing known)
Rebels: 1 Escort Frigate (again Assault Mk.I), Rouge Squadron (abroad Nebulon-B frigate), Luke, Han and Chewie in the Millenium Falcon; (kidnapped 5+ Galofree transports, 7+Correlian Corvettes, 1 Neb-B Frigate, 1-2 MC-80 Liberty)

Katana Fleet Location
Imperials: ISD Judicator with cpt. Brandei, reinforcements: ISD Peremptory
Rebels:
1)(1 Nebulon-B Frigate Quenfis with cpt. Virgilio, Fey'la, Leia and Karrde; 2 X-Wings squadrons)
2) Correlian Corvette (?) with Luke, Han and Chewie -> Katana; 15 Dreadnoughts remaining (including Katana, 1 with working guns (1 salvo only), 1 with working engines); Rouge Squadron escort[/b]
reinforcements:
3) Wild Karrde (modified Action VI transport), 9+ other transports (including one YT-1300), Mara Jade in Z-95
4) Peregrine with Garm Bel-Iblis, 3-5 Dreadnaughts

Ukio
Imperials: ISD Chimera with Thrawn, Pallaeon and C'Baoth, 10 Dreadnaughts
Rebels: nothing was mentioned CONFIRMED

Filve
Imperials: 1 Star Destroyer, 8 Dreadnaughts CONFIRMED
Rebels:Liea and Han in Falcon, Rouge Squadron CONFIRMED

Qat Chrystac
Imperials: 2 Victory Crusiers, 20 Star Destroyers/Dreadnaughts, 2 dreadnaughts for sure many ships, including 1+ SD, 8+ Dreadnoughts, 1+
Rebels: Rouge Squadron, Garm Bel Iblis, 15 Capital Ships, 1 A-wing Squadron

Coruscant
Imperials: Chimera, 8 Interdictors (4+), 6 Star destroyers (13+), several dreadnaughts (4+), 2 Victory Crusiers, Other support ships (1 Lancer)
Rebels: 2 Golan III, 1 Dreadnaughts, at least 2 X-Wing and B-wing squadrons(2 each), Some DP-20's, Some Escort Frigates, Garm Bel Iblis Land: Drayson, Gar Bel Iblis, turbolasers; Space: 2+Assault Frigates Mk.I, 1+ Nebulon-B frigate (destroyed by asteroid), X- and Y-Wings squadrons

Xa Fel
Imperials: ISD Chimaera, 2 SDs, 3 Strike Cruisers, 3 Dreadnoughts
Rebels: Frigate?

Bilbrinigi
Imperials:
Standard Defense (pre-battle): 3+ Star Destroyers, 4+ Strike Cruisers
Reinforcements: 7+ SDs, 2+ Interdictors, 2+ Dreadnoughts
Rebels: Home One, 3+ MC Cruisers (Liberty-class?), 2+ Assult Frigates

Many ships are hardly visible :( If we remember that altogether over 25,000 ISDs were produced, we have to assume mentioned battles were really huge, probably involving hundreds of capital ships for each side...

[Kaleb Graff]

Ok, I just gave comic series a quick look, and here is what I gathered (bold - info changed)

The Obra-Skai raid
Imperials: Pellaeon and Thrawn (in Chimera), 1 TIE fighter wing (more likely standard ISD compartment: 36 TIE Fighters, 24 TIE Interceptors, 12 TIE Bombers)
Rebels: 4 Assult frigates (Assault Frigates Mk.I, which in PR translates into Dodonna-class Frigates), 3 wings of X-wings (108 X-wings)

Bfpassh
Imperials: Chimera (with Thrawn and Pelleaon), 4 Star Destroyers, CONFIRMED (accompanying TIEs as well)
Rebels:2 and half X-wing squadrons (It only mentions 18), 2 carracks, 8 unknown ships, "Planetary Crusiers" unkown number. only some Y-wings shown

Sluis Van
Imperials:22 Star destroyers (Unknown if that number includes the Chimera) (Chimaera+at least 4 other ISDs), 12 Strike-Class Crusiers, 22 Carracks, (none visible) 30 TIE fighter squadrons (again, probably more), 1 Action IV transport (1 cloaked A-Class bulk freighter, looking like nothing known)
Rebels: 1 Escort Frigate (again Assault Mk.I), Rouge Squadron (abroad Nebulon-B frigate), Luke, Han and Chewie in the Millenium Falcon; (kidnapped 5+ Galofree transports, 7+Correlian Corvettes, 1 Neb-B Frigate, 1-2 MC-80 Liberty)

Katana Fleet Location
Imperials: ISD Judicator with cpt. Brandei, reinforcements: ISD Peremptory
Rebels:
1)(1 Nebulon-B Frigate Quenfis with cpt. Virgilio, Fey'la, Leia and Karrde; 2 X-Wings squadrons)
2) Correlian Corvette (?) with Luke, Han and Chewie -> Katana; 15 Dreadnoughts remaining (including Katana, 1 with working guns (1 salvo only), 1 with working engines); Rouge Squadron escort[/b]
reinforcements:
3) Wild Karrde (modified Action VI transport), 9+ other transports (including one YT-1300), Mara Jade in Z-95
4) Peregrine with Garm Bel-Iblis, 3-5 Dreadnaughts

Ukio
Imperials: ISD Chimera with Thrawn, Pallaeon and C'Baoth, 10 Dreadnaughts
Rebels: nothing was mentioned CONFIRMED

Filve
Imperials: 1 Star Destroyer, 8 Dreadnaughts CONFIRMED
Rebels:Liea and Han in Falcon, Rouge Squadron CONFIRMED

Qat Chrystac
Imperials: 2 Victory Crusiers, 20 Star Destroyers/Dreadnaughts, 2 dreadnaughts for sure many ships, including 1+ SD, 8+ Dreadnoughts, 1+
Rebels: Rouge Squadron, Garm Bel Iblis, 15 Capital Ships, 1 A-wing Squadron

Coruscant
Imperials: Chimera, 8 Interdictors (4+), 6 Star destroyers (13+), several dreadnaughts (4+), 2 Victory Crusiers, Other support ships (1 Lancer)
Rebels: 2 Golan III, 1 Dreadnaughts, at least 2 X-Wing and B-wing squadrons(2 each), Some DP-20's, Some Escort Frigates, Garm Bel Iblis Land: Drayson, Gar Bel Iblis, turbolasers; Space: 2+Assault Frigates Mk.I, 1+ Nebulon-B frigate (destroyed by asteroid), X- and Y-Wings squadrons

Xa Fel
Imperials: ISD Chimaera, 2 SDs, 3 Strike Cruisers, 3 Dreadnoughts
Rebels: Frigate?

Bilbrinigi
Imperials:
Standard Defense (pre-battle): 3+ Star Destroyers, 4+ Strike Cruisers
Reinforcements: 7+ SDs, 2+ Interdictors, 2+ Dreadnoughts
Rebels: Home One, 3+ MC Cruisers (Liberty-class?), 2+ Assult Frigates

Many ships are hardly visible :( If we remember that altogether over 25,000 ISDs were produced, we have to assume mentioned battles were really huge, probably involving hundreds of capital ships for each side...

Good work. Still, Bilbringi should have had around 24 ISD equivalents. (1 sector fleet)

[A1Dasdfsdkli4r2]

[Sluis Van
Imperials:22 Star destroyers (Unknown if that number includes the Chimera) (Chimaera+at least 4 other ISDs), 12 Strike-Class Crusiers, 22 Carracks, (none visible) 30 TIE fighter squadrons (again, probably more), 1 Action IV transport (1 cloaked A-Class bulk freighter, looking like nothing known)
Rebels: 1 Escort Frigate (again Assault Mk.I), Rouge Squadron (abroad Nebulon-B frigate), Luke, Han and Chewie in the Millenium Falcon; (kidnapped 5+ Galofree transports, 7+Correlian Corvettes, 1 Neb-B Frigate, 1-2 MC-80 Liberty)

that 1 Action IV is the Cloaked ship

[Kaleb Graff]

[Sluis Van
Imperials:22 Star destroyers (Unknown if that number includes the Chimera) (Chimaera+at least 4 other ISDs), 12 Strike-Class Crusiers, 22 Carracks, (none visible) 30 TIE fighter squadrons (again, probably more), 1 Action IV transport (1 cloaked A-Class bulk freighter, looking like nothing known)
Rebels: 1 Escort Frigate (again Assault Mk.I), Rouge Squadron (abroad Nebulon-B frigate), Luke, Han and Chewie in the Millenium Falcon; (kidnapped 5+ Galofree transports, 7+Correlian Corvettes, 1 Neb-B Frigate, 1-2 MC-80 Liberty)

that 1 Action IV is the Cloaked ship

He's saying that in the comics, it doesn't look like an Action IV.

[A1Dasdfsdkli4r2]

I never thanked you for getting those for me, so thank you Keraunos.