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Sharpness and size


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#1 Beriadan

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:23 AM

Hey there Nazgul, hope you are doing fine and not having much trouble reading all this :p I'm new to the forums, but congrats by the way, I really love your work, it's someting... otherworldly :wub:

Ok, now to the point... :p

1. SIZE: I really think you overdid it a bit with the size of a couple of units, a bit with ents and giants, though those are really fine, but MUMAKIL, my God they are too big. I mean, I know you wanted to be loyal to the movies, but you gotta understand (at least thats how I see it) that showing many many meters tall giant elephants in a movie (for the sake of the show and entertainment, mainly) is different than putting those in a strategy game. I mean they don't even fit through gates, and LOOK TERRIBLE coming out of the great siege works. OK now to the really important matter of size: THE GROND!!! :thumbsupsmiley: Wow! I mean it's amazing to have it in the game, at last, don't get me wrong, but I think it should be a little smaller (and I really hope I'm not being a jerk here), like about 80% of it's actual size, I think. :wub: I know it was depicted in the movies and described in the books as really really big, but the matter is, its really anoying when moving it arround, it should at least splatter and crush some units and buildings (like cavalry, only this would be a stuff of size and weight and not speed or else). The most important problem with it is that IT OCUPIES MOST OF THE SCREEN :umad: , and its hard to see any of those tiny little units actually attacking the GIANT thing (let alone doing any damage to it). I mean its even bigger than fortresses!!

Well I'm sorry I prolonged my message this much, but I had to explain the reasons why! ;)

I guess I'll now be posting my # 2 suggestion in a couple of days, to give you time to recover :p and also because its not that big of a deal (OK I'll tell you now and don't bother you later: the RESOLUTIONS of Fort upgrades like fertile land and MotW stone floor stuff look really bad, too low, like if water fell on it and screw the painting up :blink: ... it makes the game look less realistic, and is kind of strange coming from your team after you made those beautiful gondor soldiers and lorien archers skins :grin: )

(I'm ashamed now looking and the length of the text, BYE!!! KEEP IT UP!!! :good: )

#2 Nazgûl

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 02:28 PM

Hehe thanks for your honest input... :thumbsupsmiley:

Primarily though:
- The mod is not finished, and many things like Grond still needs some work. I have no plans making it smaller, but it will need more work on geometry (for crushing) and compatibility with some maps. However, atm I haven't even got the WiP files since my Head Coder went missing... The mod is currently on hold, due to that.

Ents and Mumaks will stay this size too, since Mumaks are even bigger in the movies actually. They easily trample a horse remember =p The mod is about looks primarily, not "easy of play". And the final version will have a huge zoom out option for all maps sp large objects wont be a problem.

The floor textures ARE "high res" (kind of) and based on original textures from the original game, but the game zooms in so much that they look less good than model skins. Any higher res on them and the game would lagg even more. In that sense playability is important since everybody hates lagg.

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#3 witchkingshour

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:32 PM

I agree the Grond is big, but I don't really care either. It's just awesome to have it in the game. Mumakil and Ents are supposed to be big to begin with. I mean in the regular game, Ents weren't too much bigger than the regular units, so it's fine in my opinion.
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#4 Guest_Guest_Beriadan_*_*

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:29 AM

Yeah well, I know what you mean, though I dont really care much about the original game now that we have the mod :p

Ents are just fine, and even Mumakil, but then it might be (in my opinion) necessary to find a new way of it coming out of siege works, since bearing in mind the mod is about looks as you Nazgul said :grin: , it looks really awful and bugs me a lot the way they pop out from the ground (without any dust effect for that matter :blink: ), like before, i know, but then you didnt see the huge, massive oliphant going through hard thick terrain like just a finger into thin jellow :p did you ... hehe. Again Im bothering you too much, considering I dont work in mod team, but its just that I really liked this mod when I saw it and would like it to be as perfect as possible... Maybe it would be better to see the mumakil apear like heroes on horses when you tell them to ride. Just a though. :good:

About the Grond, it will be really cool when we have these zoom out options, but still, it will have too few polygons in regular camera. For instance, the giant logs with wooden spikes (huge, for what they should have more polygons and not be scaled up) look like a drawing of a fork made by a kinder garden child :mellow: . The real problem are its looks... hm... anyhow, I just dont think its working too well, its awkward how it moves and looks, it doesnt feel right.

(Sorry, too much talking again :blush: ... BTW, i also understand that sul went missing in action and for that the mod is on TEMPORARY hold :thumbsupsmiley: Id wish I went through more programming courses in my career sooner xD)

#5 Guest_Guest_Beriadan_*_*

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 12:40 AM

I just though of something else for mumakils... its your choice though: when you tell the siege works to make one, a big build site starts (just like the ones from builders when they, you know, build) in front of it (where it would be when it walked out of the building), and then the mumakil would slowly, like ents from the entmoot, pop "up" or rise from the ground (in its final horizontal position, of course), until it is finally made and the dust "build site" effect disappears. Tell me what you think. I guess it would be a lot of work, but i think it would be worth it, for the sake of the looks of the mod. :thumbsupsmiley:

#6 Insurance Salesman

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Posted 07 June 2008 - 10:42 PM

Not to be rude or anything, but somehow that doesn't seem to be much better to me. It's still popping out of the ground, and it still looks really, really wierd. But I agree with your basic point; having Mumakil pop out of the earth looks, well, wrong. Maybe it could be airlifted in by fell beasts :thumbsupsmiley: .

Edited by Insurance Salesman, 07 June 2008 - 10:44 PM.


#7 Guest_Guest_Beriadan_*_*

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 04:34 AM

LOL yeah, like fellcopters or something? :p hehe I know what you mean about my last suggestion, but it's always better than having it come through the terrain polygons like that... maybe the solution is a bigger siege works :) one that ... huh never mind. i just thought it would still look like coming out of the earth, just surrounded by four walls :O

#8 Nazgûl

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 11:27 PM

Uhm, not sure what you mean by the "polygon" problem. It all looks fine on my screen? I run with maximum settings though, and most things look like crap on lower settings, so that's pretty important to remember when adressing something - don't forget to state if you ran in maximum or lower settings =P For instance - the wheels of the Grond won't turn on lower settings...

And once again - SEE is not finished and many things still need work. And one of them is, to make another example, scaling of some structures like the Siege Works for Mordor and the Mûmakil Tent. Don't worry, it will all be proportional. The "fortresses" however are not fortresses, but merely fortress keeps. In other words, they are only the inner command central of the entire base that is the fortress, so I don't see the Grond as being too big in comparison. It's only a structure, not a castle =p

About the "popping up" from nowhere for Mûmakils or even worse the "construction" of a mûmak (?)... I severely fail to see the benefit of that ;) Talk about unrealistic :mellow:

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#9 Dharko

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 02:05 AM

For me it´s a perfect size. I don´t care. Please don´t change any size. :mellow:

#10 Nazgûl

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 10:20 AM

We wont. But we will make the Siege Works and the Mumak Tent bigger to better suit the Grond and the Mumakils. That has been planned for long :unsure:

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#11 DragonLord

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Posted 11 June 2008 - 03:37 AM

Wow, this mod's still going?

It's been a while since I've last posted, seeing how Nazgul was having trouble getting the team back together. I'm still waiting for Beta 4.6 though. :xd:
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#12 Nazgûl

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:04 AM

No it's not... sorry. :( It's idle and slowly dying I'm sorry to say. Head Coder is missing and I can't reach him. It's been posted like all over T3A so I won't get into that here too =p But keep your fingerscrossed that he will return with the WiP and that I will find a new head coder.

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#13 Lurtzy

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 01:13 AM

I would code for you but I don't know AI coding, is this ok?

Trying to hold on...


#14 ttandchotmail

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Posted 12 June 2008 - 05:26 AM

G'day Nazgul

I would also code for your mod in a heartbeat if I had the know how. I hope all's well on your side of the fence :good: I havn't had any stray thoughts pass through the old brain cells lately as I've been a little busy with animating. But as soon as free time passes my way you can be sure I'll be playing your mod again :p

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#15 Dr.Kirk

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:31 PM

Ooh... now I don't like the sound of SEE dying a death... at all... :) :p
Considering it's (from what I've seen so far) the best BFME II mod I know, and I support it strongly, I seriously don't want the candle blowing out on it now.

If it's any help, I'll AI code if it's needed. Just not under pressure! :p
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#16 Dr.Kirk

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 01:36 PM

And just to say, people, come on, the SEE mod is about film accuracy not your PC settings or the playability of the game. It's about the cinematics and the film reality.

The size for Grond is perfect. So is that of the Mumakil. And is it just me or were the Ents taller STILL in the movies?

God though a Mumakil 'building' itself out of the ground sounds... weird...
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#17 Nazgûl

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:17 PM

You seem to be in sync with my ambitions... I like it :)

// C}{riZpc_punch.gif
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#18 Dr.Kirk

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 06:33 AM

You seem to be in sync with my ambitions... I like it

Thank you! It's an honour being told that. Great minds think alike! :p
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#19 Beriadan

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 12:34 AM

Hey guys... Wow I just posted this HUGE message on "Grievances", and now I'm ashamed by it :xcahik_:

Now about my initial post, I didn't mean to be in de-sync with you Naz :) but rather to help out by pointing stuff that in my opinion needs to be polished, but just that, I totally love what you've done so far :blush: keep it up!

Now that I re-read it, it sounds pretty stupid that Mumakil birth thinggie, just meant to compare it's spawning with that of ents, but only one of those should "be built" by the earth itself, considering that... it's a tree after all :crazed:

I suppose what you said is the best choice, making the pen and the works bigger themselves. The siege works would require a sort of roof on top of the Grond being built thou, less we want it to look like still coming out of the terrain texture. By I suppose I mean only that, I really adore how the mumakils are "natural" sized, and not those tiny skater elephants (they looked like if skating on ice when walking) :D thumbs down on you EA, again.

Hope you can get back on track soon, with Sul being back and all, but anyways I'm glad he's ok :good:

Regards.

BTW, on my last post I said something bout the Grond too... you might as well ignore all that ;) and only consider what I said bout the fellbeast's chair/seat for a Nazgul that is not aboard :unsure:

Long live S.E.E. !! :blush:

#20 Beriadan

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Posted 15 July 2008 - 12:39 AM

oh, by the way, I also remembered the textures for fort improvements for surrounding buildings, how the textures look low-res... I don't know if you can do something about that, but well, just letting you know what I think (maybe the fertile ground upgrade texture could be extracted from elven forest power? dunno =P




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