47 replies to this topic

[{IP} Aridor]

I have a suggestion to make. The longbows in the game do not function like real longbows. In real combat the longbow is used like the longshot power. Waves of arrows that come done like rain. The bombard function should work like this. A totally devastating rain of arrows. For an example see 300, or for a far better example see Henry V, Kenneth Branagh's version. Very realistic warfare. http://www.youtube.c...feature=related That is a link to a video that shows how Longbows were used. It is in the middle. This is how the bombard function should work.

[CIL]

I agree that arrow bombardment needs a bit of extra range and that units like the Galadhrim need to have bombard, but longbows were also used for precision shooting as well, not just the shortbow.

[Fyro11]

Yes I must agree with Aridor on this. In reality, arrows are rarely ever shot straight at the enemy. However, in the game, if the enemy is two metres away then the archer would have to revert to firing straight at the enemy. So, there'd have to be quite some coding. Rob from the HD mod has given her Elven Bombarders precisely this ability and the thing I love is that the anim has been changed so the Elves are truly aiming upwards.

I think, as far as Elves go, then the public needs to see the new units before it can comment.

[myster]

+ the area where the arrows land should be around the same as the shape of the formation of the archers that are firing them... not all in a big round spot..

[CIL]

If a beta tester or someone on the team says they'd like to see something like this, it is a possibility, but otherwise... Nothing will happen. Maybe if someone like Rob lent RJ the anims... but ideas like that are somewhat far-fetched.

[Fyro11]

Right now the team could be 'sitting on the fence' with this one, so we need to make our voices heard. From what I understand, we only have one animator, that being Ed, so there is a dire shortage. However, if him and Shikari managed to pull off Gandalf's cart with all its anim, then why not mess about with the arms, in essence, tilt the arm upwards. In comparison, this would seem shorter...

[Devon]

Erm...I'm fairly certain anims already axist...see added a bombard feature something like this, and I don't think they have an animator...


Oh, scryer, you can delete your own post It's right next to the edit button.

Edited by YodaWarrior, 10 June 2008 - 01:11 PM.

[{IP} Aridor]

The direct shooting works. Just change the bombard power. Make it like a weak longshot with a limited range. The thing is that in real life the archers are vulnerable. The longbow is bad for close range unlike the crossbow, and low and behold the crossbow-longbow balance issue is fixed! The normal short range longbow attack is the same as crossbow range but weaker, but the longbows have bombard which is less accurate but more deadly and longer range. So there we can achive realism and balance, and all it took was a stubborn insistence on realism and the ability to think outside the box.

[Puppeteer]

which is less accurate but more deadly and longer range

Mmm... thing is depending on what era you go to in history the ranges of crossbows change, so at one point they surpassed the longbow and still do. And I'm not talking as in recently. However, perhaps the Isengard Crossbows are shoddily made so perhaps the conventional but stereotyped range issue should remain as it is.
Anyway yes I believe some archers may have bombard anims already... I know that the Rohan Elven Warriors do.

[{IP} Aridor]

A crossbow that was able to be carried was never made that outranged the longbow. Even the Chinese who had the most advanced crossbows never made one that outranged the longbow. They had an automatic firing crossbow even. But it is a matter of physics. A cross can't out range a longbow and still be the size that can be held. Plus the more powerful the crossbow the longer it takes to load. Which was the biggest advantage of the longbow. It has like 10X the rate of fire.

[Vithar-133]

Very true. the only 'crossbow' able to surpass the longbow, isn't even a crossbow. A ballista is the only 'crossbow' with the ability to outrange the longbow, and it's firing rate isn't all that commendable when compared to their smaller cousins. Where a crossbow is weak in range and firing rate, though, they are the aces for accuracy and power, surpassed only by the strongest and most skilled of Longbow Men.

In end, I'd rather have the longbow to weaken the enemy, and the crossbow to hold the enemy off.

[Puppeteer]

Not what a lot of archery instructors insist...

[Myrdin]

soo just to follow the stuff writen here

xbowmen should get hell like increased attack speed - as you all said - reloading crossbow is easy and doesnt require really any skill nor strenght for reloading a bow.
bows - remain as they are
longbows - units with longbows, should get increased range, but slower reload, and maybe accuracy % chance to " miss " the target ( like 10% which aint that much )

[Vithar-133]

You've got what we've said backwards.
Crossbows take more time to reload and have a short range, but gain a powerful attack and high accuracy as the offset.
Longbows, on the other hand, have a killer range and reload speed, but weaker attack and a lesser accuracy.

[Myrdin]

i just made summarum of what was previously said.

more important is - what does the staff of this mod do with this, will it be implemented or not ? I personally dont care, but i am a bit curious about it

[Vithar-133]

hmm... not quite sure if rob has seen this. I'll have to see what he thinks.

[myster]

lmao at ''summarum''

[{IP} Aridor]

Modern crossbows have good range. But note that word "modern", I don't think that Isengard had carbon fiber compisites to make their crossbows. The stronger the crossbow the longer it takes to load. Even true of modern xbows. To load a crossbow in the middle ages you had to set it on the ground and brace it with your foot. Then you pulled up on the string, which was rather hard because it had alot of pull strength. once you got it up high enough you latched it onto the trigger ratchet. Then you picked up the xbow and aimed, pulled the trigger and fired. That takes like 30 secs for a highly trained archer.

[Puppeteer]

so at one point they surpassed the longbow and still do

Wasn't sure of what line you were going to take the crossbows as, either mass produced and not a high-priority by Saruman, or, akin to Wote I think, the crossbows are slow but designed in such a way with Saruman's technology + magic to make them great things.
Heck, just go with a Strongbow

[mike_]

While I agree that the crossbows ingame aren't very realistic, they do reflect the brutal efficiency of those in reality. At one point the Roman Catholic Church legally banned them from use for being "too good of a weapon".