19 replies to this topic

[Rawlo]

now before I get my hands ripped off and shoved down my throat by a collective of the LOTR fans here, I've read the lord of the rings trilogy, I've seen all of the recent movies, and even played a number of the games, and I will agree that lord of the rings is a very good story. What I have a problem with though is the fact that it's nearly being worshipped, it's turning into WW2 as far as games are concerned. I mean seriously when the F*CK will people get over it. sure it was a classic, sure it was ground breaking as far as stories go in there day. I'll be the first to say that it's a good story (the books will forever have a place on my shelve as classics), but it's no more then that. it's certainly not a great story, the writing is typical of that era, when people BS'd on far more then necicary. it's an extremely generic: sword, sorcery, knights in shining armor, elves, dwarfs, orcs/goblins good wizards vs bad wizards, sure the hobbits are cool but still... that stuff has been done to death and it is seriously beginning to suck.

If you really want to do fantacy, of epic proportions why not do something new, for instance ditch the europian setting and go for the orient, not only is there myth far more in depth, and so much cooler to rip apart, it's also been less done. then add ninjas, I mean ninjas rock, and samarai, and pirates and the whole junk, heck for all I care do an arab one, or indian, or make one up, or if your really creaming your pants for dragons and broadswords then an europian one other then the lord of the rings, there are litterally thousands, just for the love of god leave the beaten corpse of a horse that is the Lord of the Rings series alone so that those last few drops of blood can bleed out in peace.

Cheers
Rawlo

Edit: as to my referance to WWII, there are so many games based on the beach landing during D-day, that if you played them end to end, as fast as you could, cheating even, it would go for about the entire duration of the 'allied nations' invasion of france, fromt he moment they landed on the beaches of france to the moment they kicked the germans out.

Edited by Rawlo, 03 July 2008 - 10:28 AM.

[Vortigern]

The point you've missed there is that LotR was the just about the original fantasy epic. Tolkien invented the concepts of elves, dwarves and orcs as they're seen today, and they have been copied so many times. What you've said there is like saying the Godfather is shit because it's full of clichés, which of course came from the Godfather in the first place. Or like saying Dracula is just bog-standard gothic horror writing. Of course it fucking is, what else could it be!?

The problem with writing a fantasy epic from the Orient or the Middle East is that there are no fantasy writers from there. The base culture is so different, and they do not have the same understanding of epic fantasy as we do. Their style is not the same as ours. That's not to say it's better or worse, but you must agree that it isn't the same. Thus, the vast majority of fantasy writers are European, and understand European culture, and are much more comfortable writing about it. Eventually the various cultures will be assimilated across the world, and then you'll get your ninja fantasy. Until then, not a chance of a decent bit, I don't think.

You should try it. Write one yourself.

[mike_]

Beat me to it, Vort

But yes..the reason 'Lord of the Rings' is so "extremely generic" is because it was the first of it's kind. It set the bar for all generic fantasy novels that have appeared since then.

[Rawlo]

meh I think you missed my point, it's not the books, as I said I love them, but I just despise how with every generation of games theres always atleast 2 or 3 about lord of the rings, why can't they do something else? it sickens me because it's the same story being told to me over and over in a slightly prettier and a slightly different vew every time. why can't they just let it rest? I realize LotR is generic because it set the standard but it's just been spread thin, it's like some scabby basterds trying to get as many jam sandwidges out of a jar of strawberry jam as they can because it's their favourite jam. now before you hit me with the if you don't like it don't play it thing, you can't be a part of a gaming community at any level without lord of the rings being shoved in your face with the sort of frequency you'd expect in a slapping contest. I just think they should let it rest for a while, maybe try using a different type of jam, maybe come back in 10-15 years and go wow look at where all this shite started. Blehg, in any case I'm sorry if I'm not as coherent as usual, but if I was this would be a lecture on milking a fanbase for all it's worth, not a rant.

[Elvenlord]

Maybe you're right, maybe you're not.
The most important thing is that it sells.
And 2-3 isn't bad. How many Star Wars games are there per generation?
And while we're at it, the past few generation, with the exception of the Wii, the consoles themselves have all just been steps up in power and graphics. So, in reality, it fits right in

[Spectre]

I've never liked LotR, i'm not the European-Fantasy/Midevil fan, i've been drawn more to American/Oriental culture (and the fact that i love Realistic high/Modern-tech and Futuristic games and things so dang much, i seem to like the WWII games alot to. ), i say its about damn time that they should put a Ninja in a RTS for once, and i'm satisified with that by the Empire Earth series, becauase they actually put in different cultures than European...

Rawlo, if you want Ninjas and Samurais, i think the best way to go is pick up one of the Empire Earths.

[mike_]

Yes, I misunderstood you.
I agree that there are too many "Lord of the Rings" games on the market. Just like there are too many "Star Wars" and "World War II" games. Unfortunately, the "Lord of the Rings" games out there are for the most part not even that good :\
So, yes, I agree with you to an extent. The games developers should either do it right for once and be done or just stop.
And, Jenkins..a ninja RTS? lol, I hope that was a joke..if not, feel free to explain how it would work out.

[Spectre]

Like China Vs. Japan? it had to happen sometime, so maybe Ninja vs. Ninja and Samurai vs. Samurai? if Japanese were the only ones with Ninjas and Samurai please do tell what Chinese had.

[mike_]

That's not stereotypical..

[OmegaBolt]

Wait. Did someone put America and culture in the same sentence?! America doesn't have a culture, it's just stolen everyone elses. But thats for a different topic...

[Mathijs]

America certainly does have a culture. Fastfood chains, route 66, rock 'n roll, all that jazz. American Dream, Horatio Alger and stuff.

[Vortigern]

If you can call that 'culture'.....

[Mathijs]

I call it culture, and I like the culture as well. Motels, desert roads, extravagant capitalism... I like it all.

[Vortigern]

Well, you're Dutch, everyone knows the Dutch have no culture of their own either That's why you all learn to speak English, so you can leave Holland.

For the record, I see America as an abomination to the world. Their brand of 'extravagant capitalism', as you call it, sickens me to my very core. Capitalism should be about advances through competition, not trying to undersell your competitors to inadvertently create a communist state wherein nobody accepts that they are communist, which is almost certain to happen should the USA continue along this path. The only good thing about their long desert roads is that you encounter very few Americans while driving along them. There is nothing good about motels. Have you ever stayed in one? The only thing they're good for is poor couples who are cheating on their partners.

[mike_]

I beg to differ, Vort. Have you actually been to America and spoken with Americans? Or are you simply going by what you think you know, or one or two bad experiences?

[Mathijs]

Well, you're Dutch, everyone knows the Dutch have no culture of their own either That's why you all learn to speak English, so you can leave Holland.

For the record, I see America as an abomination to the world. Their brand of 'extravagant capitalism', as you call it, sickens me to my very core. Capitalism should be about advances through competition, not trying to undersell your competitors to inadvertently create a communist state wherein nobody accepts that they are communist, which is almost certain to happen should the USA continue along this path. The only good thing about their long desert roads is that you encounter very few Americans while driving along them. There is nothing good about motels. Have you ever stayed in one? The only thing they're good for is poor couples who are cheating on their partners.

That's all part of what I like about America. I dislike stupidity as a whole, and there are plenty of intelligent Americans out there. No, I have not stayed in motels like those, but I want to. I want that sense of slight depravity. I really like the idea of the American Dream, as flawed as it is these days.

[Vortigern]

I have been to America 4 times in the past six years, and found it does not agree with me. I admit I may have emphasised my dislike a little strongly, but my opinion remains valid. I too have met many intelligent, witty and friendly Americans, though I have met equally many with little or no idea of what comprises basic general knowledge, such as whether Europe is a country or a continent. It's a dilemma.

[some_weirdGuy]

Yeah, its sad how stupid some people can be(not just americans here)

things like:
"what country is Canada in?"
"whats Hitlers last name?"
"theres no b in dumb..."
(and one of the all time dumbest things i have ever heard, and it was a girl at my school!)
"do clouds come out at night? i didn't know that" (omg...)


its just cause Americans have so many more people, they have so many more dumb people...


anyway, back on topic about LOTR

i dont really like over the top fantasy like that...

elves, dawrves, dragons, goblins, orcs and all that crap.... it just seems so lame to me.
Thats why i liked the Diablo series, it didn't have any of that rubbish in it, just humans and demons (and angels who looked moderately awesome too)

[Verrückt]

If you havent been to America, you aren't missing much, you want to live somewhere nice move to Switzerland.

[mike_]

Well, everyone's entitled to their own opinion of things. Unfortunately, it's human nature to enforce our own upon our neighbors :sneekie:

I myself am a Lord of the Rings buff for life

Anyway..to the sub-topic. Having not ventured outside of America (or the Southeast part of the country for that matter) I'm not exactly at liberty to discuss the finer points of other people's opinions of the American people.

That said, I'm completely willing to show that not all Americans are bad...as a matter of fact, from what I've seen, society as a whole is...stagnating.

Sorry for the Thread-jacking-ness