40 replies to this topic

[shadowcreature]

Quite so, but both very interesting nonetheless. Like NJM said earlier their fates remain unknown, so almost anything is possible.

[mike_]

Behold, my children! I come to you now at the turn of the tide!

EDIT: Yes, I just used quotes from both Gandalf and Captain Sparrow in the same context

Edited by mike_, 13 July 2008 - 05:22 PM.

[mike_]

Double post, bleh.

Anyway..found something interesting on another forum concerning this topic. It's said that the were-wolves of the First Age were the fea of Orcs "reincarnated" into another form; that of monstrous wolves in the service of Morgoth (or more specifically, Sauron). Anyway, is it possible that Gothmog Lord of Balrogs could have been reincarnated into a lesser, fleshy form in the Third Age; that of an Orc? Would explain the name and both being leaders.

Discuss.

[Dalf32]

interesting thought, but wouldnt the reincarnation of a maiar require the intervention of one of the valar? who would have done such a thing other than morgoth? by the wotr he was unable to do something like that being trapped in the void and the lore shows that the valar awarded reincarnation to those who commited favorable deeds (slaying balrogs for instance).
is it not possible that sauron simply chose an orc to be a general of his and named him after one of the greatest of melkor's lieutenants?

[mike_]

It's possible, but unlikely.

[Puppeteer]

More unlikely that he was reincarnated, in my opinion

[Ring o' Fate]

The orc could have proved himself worthy of that title.

[Hasfusel]

If Tolkein had meant this, I'm sure he'd have written it in one of the appendixes or something. He's not the kind of writer who leaves in conspiracies and stuff like that without revealing it at some point, so, no.

[mike_]

Besides Bombadil, the fate of Men, and the factual purpose of Dwarves? Not to mention the origins of Hobbits and the 'Watcher in the Water'?

[Brenn]

Tolkien wrote that Glorfindel is sent back to Middle-earth by the Valar during the Second Age circa 1600, when Barad-dûr was completed and Sauron forged the One Ring, and while Númenor was still friendly with the Elves under Tar-Minastir. He is sent as a kind of predecessor to the Istari (Wizards), or in a different version, together with the Blue Wizards. At one point he was even considered as a possibility for the identity of one of them, though this was immediately rejected since the Eldar were not initially conceived as possibilities for the Wizards, and he had come to the conclusion that they were only Maiar.

[mike_]

Tolkien wrote that Glorfindel is sent back to Middle-earth by the Valar during the Second Age circa 1600, when Barad-dûr was completed and Sauron forged the One Ring, and while Númenor was still friendly with the Elves under Tar-Minastir. He is sent as a kind of predecessor to the Istari (Wizards), or in a different version, together with the Blue Wizards. At one point he was even considered as a possibility for the identity of one of them, though this was immediately rejected since the Eldar were not initially conceived as possibilities for the Wizards, and he had come to the conclusion that they were only Maiar.

Edited by mike_, 13 September 2008 - 08:22 PM.

[Puppeteer]

Hehe I would have pointed that out too

[mike_]

Not to mention he got that from Wiki

[{IP} Aridor]

Yeah with people think that that Wiki is a valid source for citation.

[Rafv Nin IV]

Besides Bombadil, the fate of Men, and the factual purpose of Dwarves? Not to mention the origins of Hobbits and the 'Watcher in the Water'?

Whatca talkin' about? Bombadil is Illuvatar. Obviously.

[{IP} Aridor]

Clearly he isn't otherwise he would have done much more to help out His Children. I like the theory that he is Aule the Smith.

[Puppeteer]

Might explain his likeness to the Dwarves...

[Rafv Nin IV]

It's called tough love. After all, Melkor was also one of Illuvatar's children. Maybe he was just letting siblings fight things out.

Aule always seemed more of a practical, down-to-earth (as much as a Valar may be) sort of guy to me. It's reflected in the Dwarves. That's why he was a Smith. On the other hand, Bombadil was a whimsical sort who sang everything. He loved music.

Now, who do we know who loved music so much that his first creations were members of a great Choir that sang wondrous music? Illuvatar.

[Dalf32]

if illuvatar was going to interject himself into the conflict, he would have done so in a more noticable way. he helped frodo and company yes, but if he really wanted things to go one way or the other he would have done a lot more imo.
also, iirc, the entire history of middle-earth was pretty much spelled out during that intial choir. taht would mean that he already knew the outcome no?

[mike_]

Which would explain why he didn't interfere any more than he did.