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7/6/2008 RJ-RotWK Update


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#41 robnkarla

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Posted 18 July 2008 - 10:31 PM

While I've not played too extensively across all of the different mods, I've tried to incorporate split factions a little differently in each case. Each one is done to fit a specific gameplay, with different pros and cons, that should fit that faction.

Elves - Split into 3 completely separate groups that can help each other out unit wise. You pick one and that's your faction

MotE - Split into 2 groups with other units as support. While they do work together building/unit wise, until you step in it take s money and time to get them to work as a team.

Arnor - Basically groups of kingdoms, locales, etc. that work together to form a faction. You start off with basic Arnor Kingdom units, but you work with neighboring units to get everyone to work as a team. This is more where you have multi-pathed upgrades to follow to expand your army with each step.

With each case it introduces units/gameplay that is different/unique, that adds to the faction rather than the feeling that each one is a cookie-cutter version of each other. With the enhanced role of Cavalry, Rohan really has begun to return to the glory days, with Gondor taking a different role as well as Gandalf and different units take their own stance.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is sub-factions/mini-factions are different in RJ than in other mods in general as each faction really is different on how they function. To take full advantage of the strengths and paths of the factions, you really cannot play them the same. (That is a huge part of the goal of RJ).

Robert J.

p.s. I have had a prolonged absence lately. Life in general has been.....$##$%#. But I have finished with the overhaul of all archer/ranged units. Most of the Blue Wizard powers are done. (lol, I try to think outside of the box for them. I hope you all enjoy as MotE is meant to be the "fun" faction.) I still won't set a date, because this next week can either go really well and I'll be nearly done, or .........uh.....yeah.....

#42 Beriadan

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:37 AM

Sorry to hear that Rob, hope you get things going soon :) I mean not only with the mod, but with... well, life, in general.

Thanks to you all for your answers and sincere feedback on my humble thoughts hehe. Thanks for the welcome Yoda ;)

No, I wasn't suggesting to make factions like just Men or Shadow, but something other, to make factions have a more clear identity, like elves from Mirkwood or Rivendell, Dwarves from Erebor or Goblins from Moria.

Although, I see now what you mean, this mod really excels at overhauling each faction and making them unique in terms of gameplay and not fictional essence, missed to see that before, probably because of what CrazyIntelectual said, I've just only tested the mod, and then I found it weird as men have 3 kingdoms and elves are still just elves! But never mind that, I see your point now, they must wage war as a hole, otherwise they are nothing (really, the great Eldar warriors of myth? lol kiddin').

But my core point was different actually, I think you missed it, and I know its really silly and not realistic (if only that), and above all, childish... but here I go: I don't get it how some factions are called Mordor, Isengard, Angmar, Gondor, Rohan and Arnor, which are realms, places or countries of Middle-earth (or just lands of darkness, too =P), and others are called Dwarves, Elves and Goblins (who are races, just merely that, like us Men :p without further feeling or spirit)... and finally, we have (thanks to you Rob =D ) the "MotE" :) who are neither a race nor a place, but an independant culture of evil Men. I have to say, I like what you've done with the game, I really do, and don't mean any intrusion or to force you to any real change, just ... THE NAMES!

Hehe see what I meant by "childish"? But hey, had to say it right? I'm sharing my thoughts, and probably I'm not the only one that is bothered by this. This making of EA, I have to say, as they are the ones who originally caused this mixture, unlike what Blizzard did with Warcraft III, where there are "races" (Humans, Orcs, Elves and Undead).

Ok... woa... said it :p A burden off my chest O.o

Now (I seriously have to stop writing), maybe some renaming? Dwarves=Erebor, Goblins=Moria (or anything that is more creative) and MotE=Rhun (as "Men of the East" basically means "Easterlings", those who come from the East="Rhun" in elvish)...

... No? hehehe OK, no means no :p

<Feedback please>

PS: I guess I can kiss my initial excitement about different Elven factions (Mirwood, Rivendell and Lorien) bye-bye :p

Anyhow, in any event, I can't wait for the next release ;) Thank you, Robert :crazed:

Edited by Beriadan, 19 July 2008 - 12:43 AM.


#43 Beriadan

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 12:44 AM

I'm being stupid now, I can STFU and admire the screens :crazed: they are amazing...

#44 Devon

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:24 AM

Name changes are really minor :crazed: We can worry about that after the mod is done.

But MotE defiantly will stay MotE. Because...look at a map of middle earth :) Rhun, mordor, and harad are all in the far east. And since it's not mordor, they're 'men' of the east :p

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#45 Beriadan

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 02:21 AM

Ok so... you mean ALL those "Men of the East" should not be renamed into "Rhun" (SOME men of the east...) Well yes, I would agree, if it wasn't for the fact that it sounds HORRIBLE! (with all due respect :))

Perhaps it would still fit to have them be "Rhun" with allies from Harad just like "Arnor" has allies from Mithlond :crazed:

But I agree with you on that, name changes are minor problems... They only just add a more Tolkien-like feeling, that's all :p (I don't mean to be rude at all, but don't you agree?)

Edited by Beriadan, 19 July 2008 - 02:24 AM.


#46 Devon

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 04:13 AM

I do :crazed: But priorities :)


If they were rhun with harad as allies, they would be like arnor with it's minifactions :p We don't want that, we want you to be able to choose which one you want as your core faction.

And Men of the East is far better than Evil men ;) Which was the name prior to that.

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#47 Puppeteer

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 01:55 PM

Men of the East encompasses both Rhun and Harad into one faction, with neither taking priority or importance over the other. Thus calling it Rhun would imply they are the primary "constituent" (for lack of a better word) of the faction. Which they are not, so in my opinion I think Men of the East is the best name you could come up with for the conglomeration of allies of Sauron in the East.

But my core point was different actually, I think you missed it, and I know its really silly and not realistic (if only that), and above all, childish... but here I go: I don't get it how some factions are called Mordor, Isengard, Angmar, Gondor, Rohan and Arnor, which are realms, places or countries of Middle-earth (or just lands of darkness, too =P), and others are called Dwarves, Elves and Goblins


I understood this from the off, having thought it myself, but came to the conclusion that perhaps it was a good idea. Men would encompass Gondor, Arnor and Rohan, Elves encompasses Mirkwood, Lorien, Rivendell etc., Dwarves encompasses Erebor etc. and Goblins encompasses all manner of vile beasts not really under a unified banner. Eg. Moria. The reason why the ones are named after regions is because to name them a race would mean you have to merge other factions, eg. the Men, but to name races after regions you would either miss out many units or have many many more factions without AI. The ones named after regions are either comparitively small, eg. Isengard, or there are different "schisms" of races who follow different leaders, and so you cannot unify them into a Race Faction.

#48 Beriadan

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 04:31 PM

Those are really convincing words right there :p I know what you mean, I thought of that too, and I guess there's nothing more to it, nothing else to do (except make my own mod perhaps *considers it ;) *)

But thinking of the original Middle-earth II, I would have preferred EA making Dwarves be Erebor (the last real dwarven kingdom, which all other dwarves would follow, right?), Elves be Lorien (... no real explanation needed, Lothlorien was THE realm of Elves at the end of The Third Age, Rivendell was merely a refuge, Mithlond just only ports and Mirkwood, well, not as prosperous) and of course, Goblins be Moria (since they, for starters, have dragons and trolls and giants and spiders too, so the name "Goblins" doesn't quite fit). Lastly, Men should be called Gondor (as that was the real kingdom of "Men of the West" or Numenoreans; Rohan merely a piece of land given to some inmigrants from the north. Besides, come on, only one type of unit and some weak heroes (sorry fanboys :p) is all Rohan has, Gondor has the main stuff).

But... last night I was playing a game of the original un-modded Middle-earth II, and saw just how much EA meant the game to be for hardcore RTS players and not big Tolkien followers. They removed REAL Lorien Warriors (the ones that came to Helm's Deep) for once, and buildings lasting that little expresses just how much you are meant to rush the enemy. So Elves and Dwarves and Goblins are just that, Elves and Dwarves and Goblins, nothing more complicated. Men of the West aren't that diverse right? Who cares what was the greater realm... They don't want that much lore in their game after all, just RTS action! :crazed:

And well, that's why mods are so special, they forget about EA and all their crap, and put (most of them) that "Tolkien" feeling back in the game :)

But hey, those are only my ideas, and I know it's not that big of a deal. As a matter of fact, I came to a solution :p Men of the West as a whole (Gondor and Rohan ;) ) are fighting, together, Mordor and Isengard (who never fight together) in the South. Meanwhile (this begins to sound too much EAish), Elves and Dwarves ally in the North to battle in out against Goblins from the Misty Mountains... Yeah, makes sense :p

Edited by Beriadan, 19 July 2008 - 04:48 PM.


#49 robnkarla

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 07:24 PM

hmmmmmm..... something wrong here

#50 mike_

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 07:26 PM

I leave for three days.. :p

EDIT: Reminds me of Fantasia ;)

Edited by mike_, 19 July 2008 - 07:27 PM.


#51 Allathar

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 07:39 PM

Hehe... That reminds me of those mammoth-skeletons they have in museums ;)
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#52 BMWteen

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 08:31 PM

heh wheres the skin? LOL nice skeletons tho... ;)

is that with both or just the oliphants?

Edited by BMWteen, 19 July 2008 - 08:32 PM.


#53 Dre@mer

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 08:52 PM

Nice ;)

#54 Dalf32

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:09 PM

i smell an easter egg... ;)

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#55 tomy

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Posted 19 July 2008 - 10:14 PM

hmmm... thats either an easter egg or a 25 pp
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#56 robnkarla

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 03:01 AM

It is not an easter egg (though might be a included as an easter egg as well in placed). It's just part of the work I'm doing for MotE, and there are a number of skeleton's I'm doing. But their place in the mod is not the typical necromancer role, but think of it in terms of animating an inanimate object like the rock golem.

Robert J.

EDIT: Some thumbs so it doesn't get lost in the text

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Edited by robnkarla, 20 July 2008 - 03:07 AM.


#57 shadowcreature

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Posted 20 July 2008 - 05:23 AM

For a minute there i thought that was a bug. ;)

#58 andrej

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 06:48 PM

woow this is really good skeleton mumakils(or what;))great work:D

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#59 Beriadan

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 01:21 AM

Wow that looks great, good job man :mad2: The idea is very similar to that in Warcraft III with the Frost Wyrm unit for the Undead (animated Dragon skeletons), only this would be either for Mordor or MotE

btw, I apologize for bothering you so much about the names of the factions. It was really silly, they are just fine as they are, no need for changes. (I was just letting out my way of seeing things as if they all should match and be perfectly defined :sad: )

hehehe was only mad at the mod (although just testing it for the 1st time ;) ) because of Elves, well... sucking so much! I mean you made a lot of cool new stuff for Gondor (just tried it today :xcahik_: ), they really rock! (luv EVERYTHING! the skins, the new units, and really like your new inn system :) ) but for the elves... my fave faction... nothing! Only that new siege unit that I can't place in Tolkien's fiction (please, enlighten me :blink: )

Hence, I would really like to know, do you have a release DATE for the next beta?? I literally can't wait for it! Only then am I playing with the Elves again (so I should become an expert strategist with Gondor :umad: ) ... So... any time soon?

Edited by Beriadan, 24 July 2008 - 01:23 AM.


#60 mike_

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Posted 24 July 2008 - 01:31 AM

It's in the works, yes.

And just to let you know...asking a modder when they expect to release their mod is considered extremely poor forum etiquette.
Sorry if that sounds harsh, but now you know :)

EDIT: And knowledge is half the battle!

Edited by mike_, 24 July 2008 - 01:32 AM.





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