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What you hate about EA's version of Helms Deep


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#1 Rob38

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 04:42 AM

Not once have I heard someone say they enjoyed and were impressed by the Helm's Deep map and campaign in BFME1. Actually, everybody seems to be rather disappointed by it. So here is your chance to complain all you want about EA's version of Helm's Deep! :D If everything goes according to plan, hopefully my mod will do what what EA didn't! :D

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#2 Elvenlord

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 04:59 AM

1. So easy. Of course, you've probably already fixed this, but oh well. Needed to say it anyways.
2. Small size of Helm's Deep itself. Again, I think you've already fixed that xD
3. Too easy :D
4. Ballistas randomly destroying my troops. Doesn't really bother me now, I can take them out, but the first couple times :D
5. Too easy
6. Severe lack of Haldir. Another thing I'm fairly sure you've done.
7. And finally, too easy. Except those damn ballistas. More irritating than hard though.

Edited by Rob38, 14 August 2008 - 09:40 PM.
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#3 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 05:18 AM

1. No way to retreat without getting shot at.............
2. Army too small compared to the movie and book. TEA handled that though.
3. Not enough command points for archer army. Will this map have almost infanite CP?
4. Money. Not enough for a decent archer army. Will this map have almost infanite resources too?
5. One entrance to the Hornburg had a gate, the other nothing but an opening in a wall!
6. And other stuff that only affects BFME1.......

Edited by Rob38, 14 August 2008 - 09:41 PM.
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#4 Rob38

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Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:53 PM

1. So easy. Of course, you've probably already fixed this, but oh well. Needed to say it anyways.
2. Small size of Helm's Deep itself. Again, I think you've already fixed that xD
3. Too easy :p
4. Ballistas randomly destroying my troops. Doesn't really bother me now, I can take them out, but the first couple times :dry:
5. Too easy
6. Severe lack of Haldir. Another thing I'm fairly sure you've done.
7. And finally, too easy. Except those damn ballistas. More irritating than hard though.

1. Yes, it will be much harder to beat now. It's going to take mutiple tries to beat and will be a challenge even for experienced players. :good:
2. Do you mean the size of the walls? The hornburg walls have roughly doubled in height from their original ones.
3. Indeed, it was too easy. :p
4. There will be some ballistas that will attack your units, but archers that are on the wall will be to attack them now. This means the ballista range will be reduced and the attack power may also depending on balance issues.
5. Yes... :)
6. Yep, easy fix for BFME2. :good:
7. Fixed and fixed. :p

1. No way to retreat without getting shot at.............
2. Army too small compared to the movie and book. TEA handled that though.
3. Not enough command points for archer army. Will this map have almost infanite CP?
4. Money. Not enough for a decent archer army. Will this map have almost infanite resources too?
5. One entrance to the Hornburg had a gate, the other nothing but an opening in a wall!
6. And other stuff that only affects BFME1.......

1. I don't understand. What do you mean? :unsure:
2. The army size will be larger for both the good and especially the evil force.
3. CP should not be too much of a problem during the game since you will constantly be losing units from enemy forces and such. There will be a limit, but you will rarely reach it (unless you lose all your farms, than CP will start hurting). ;)
4. No way! :D What would be the challenge if you had infinite resources? You will get plenty of resources to build a good size army but you can't just build the most powerful unit and upgrade them fully.
5. The hornburg should not even have a gate so I removed it in my version. Don't worry though, the main gate has gotten a huge buff and will not be easy to take down. :cool:
6. Such as... ^_^

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#5 SovietSoldier

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 12:19 AM

you do know the main gate wasn't so strong?
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#6 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 02:07 AM

Hey! Curse you for editing my post! Back on topic:
1. You can't retreat to the Hornburg without getting shot by the crossbow arrows! Thus, killing more than you want.........
2. Good.
3. Oh boy.......
4. I ment for both sides.
5. (Groan) Oh well.......
6. Not enough buildings, CP, and all of those BFME1 things that are made up for in the BFME2s.
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#7 Devon

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 04:13 PM

Aside from what's already been said....building a camp as evil and having to destroy the camps as good...just script it so it's over when the last uruk dies, and don't let the isengard player/ai build anything :shiftee:

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#8 hrrypttrbst

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 06:26 PM

To easy, you can easily hold the deeping wall from being blown up.
Archers not able to shoot from behind the wall like in the movie.
Small and not entirely made like the movie (the way Aragorn did go after the deeping wall did blow up,no caves,etc.)
BALLISTA SPAM!!
Not enough CP.
When Gandalf and Eomer come to rescue you there is no army to fight only two bases.
No difference between night and dawn for when Gandalf comes.
No Huorns.
Do I need to go on?I think most part of Helm's Deep was a mistake.
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#9 Rob38

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:03 PM

you do know the main gate wasn't so strong?

Indeed it wasn't but it still could take more than 10 battering ram hits. ;)

Hey! Curse you for editing my post! Back on topic:
1. You can't retreat to the Hornburg without getting shot by the crossbow arrows! Thus, killing more than you want.........
2. Good.
3. Oh boy.......
4. I ment for both sides.
5. (Groan) Oh well.......
6. Not enough buildings, CP, and all of those BFME1 things that are made up for in the BFME2s.

1. Well, if you do retreat, you're naturally going to lose some soldiers. I did change the arrow weapons though. They now don't act like a homing missile and their accuracy has been reduced. So yes, now you won't get hit by every arrow that is shot at you. :)
4. For the evil side, you will mostly be supplied with a very large army.

Aside from what's already been said....building a camp as evil and having to destroy the camps as good...just script it so it's over when the last uruk dies, and don't let the isengard player/ai build anything ;)

Hmmm... I may still allow Isengard to build some small camps and such. Much of their army though (90+%) will be spawned into the map however. :)

To easy, you can easily hold the deeping wall from being blown up.
Archers not able to shoot from behind the wall like in the movie.
Small and not entirely made like the movie (the way Aragorn did go after the deeping wall did blow up,no caves,etc.)
BALLISTA SPAM!!
Not enough CP.
When Gandalf and Eomer come to rescue you there is no army to fight only two bases.
No difference between night and dawn for when Gandalf comes.
No Huorns.
Do I need to go on?I think most part of Helm's Deep was a mistake.

1. Not anymore. :p
2. Fixed (elven bombarders)
3. Caves have and are still being added/refined and the path through the Helm's Deep tower has been added
4. Ballistas will cost a lot more now and they won't be as powerful.
5. Explained in aboved post.
6. There will most certainly be an army now greeting Gandalf and Eomer and ready to be smashed to the ground. :p
7. There will now be afternoon, night, and dawn settings in the map.
8. I haven't done a whole lot of experimenting yet with them, but I think I figured out a way to incorporate them into the map.
9. Indeed. ;)

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#10 SovietSoldier

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:32 PM

but remember,huorns rarely move,so make sure they don't move much.
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#11 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:41 PM

Hey! Curse you for editing my post! Back on topic:
1. You can't retreat to the Hornburg without getting shot by the crossbow arrows! Thus, killing more than you want.........
2. Good.
3. Oh boy.......
4. I ment for both sides.
5. (Groan) Oh well.......
6. Not enough buildings, CP, and all of those BFME1 things that are made up for in the BFME2s.

1. Well, if you do retreat, you're naturally going to lose some soldiers. I did change the arrow weapons though. They now don't act like a homing missile and their accuracy has been reduced. So yes, now you won't get hit by every arrow that is shot at you. ;)
4. For the evil side, you will mostly be supplied with a very large army.

1. Good, that is why, homing arrows :p.
I ment the infanite money thing, but after some thought, it wouldn't be worth it.......
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#12 Devon

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 08:17 PM

Aside from what's already been said....building a camp as evil and having to destroy the camps as good...just script it so it's over when the last uruk dies, and don't let the isengard player/ai build anything ;)

Hmmm... I may still allow Isengard to build some small camps and such. Much of their army though (90+%) will be spawned into the map however. :)


Please all of it :p

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#13 SovietSoldier

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 09:10 PM

Isengard didn't set up camps in the movie...
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#14 Rob38

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 02:08 AM

but remember,huorns rarely move,so make sure they don't move much.

They won't. :shiftee2:

Isengard didn't set up camps in the movie...

Yes, and women did not fight either. :p I'm not going to strictly follow the movie and books.

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#15 Devon

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 03:27 PM

Imo the challenge should be using the units you have with maximum efficiency...If you have camps, you can afford to throw away a few hordes and just rebuild them.

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#16 Elvenlord

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 03:57 PM

But you should be able to throw a few away, you need to test his defenses.
And may I throw in a question? In EA's, you were able to see the whole map. Will you still be able to in yours? If you can't, it might make things more interesting, you won't know what your enemy is going to attack you with until it's on your doorstep. On the flip side, the attacking forces won't know where the defenses are strongest, making probing attacking much more important.........

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#17 Devon

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 04:06 PM

Ok...what I meant was throw away without penalty :shiftee2: Obviously you're gonna have some feints and arrow fodder and stuff, but they should be exactly that...not instantly replaceable by fresh out-of-the-can uruks.

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#18 Rob38

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 04:38 PM

But you should be able to throw a few away, you need to test his defenses.
And may I throw in a question? In EA's, you were able to see the whole map. Will you still be able to in yours? If you can't, it might make things more interesting, you won't know what your enemy is going to attack you with until it's on your doorstep. On the flip side, the attacking forces won't know where the defenses are strongest, making probing attacking much more important.........


For the good guys, they will be able to see the whole map as it is kind of hard to surprise someone when you have 10000 uruks marching towards your fortress. :shiftee2: Also, part of the fun is seeing this massive Isengard force charging towards your base and you frantically preparing to defend the walls. For the evil side though, they will not be able to see what's going on behind the walls nor in the caverns.

Ok...what I meant was throw away without penalty :p Obviously you're gonna have some feints and arrow fodder and stuff, but they should be exactly that...not instantly replaceable by fresh out-of-the-can uruks.


Like I said, the camps are going to be pretty small and really will not be able to provide more than a resting spot and maybe some small reinforcements. If you're relying on your camps to provide troops, than you are in deep trouble. ;)

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#19 Elvenlord

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 06:48 PM

Fair enough :shiftee2:
Though it would be fun to have some uruks waiting by the gate, launch an attack on the wall, then attack the gate....
Though that might still be possible, depending upon the skill of the defender.......
Is it possible to see the whole map on single player, but then not on multiplayer?

Edit:....Sorry for hijacking your thread :p

Edited by Elvenlord, 16 August 2008 - 06:48 PM.

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#20 SovietSoldier

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 08:27 PM

you know in the EA's quality of Helms Deep,there was a connection between the deeping wall and keep?i hate that.make some stairs so people would go up the stairs and into the keep.
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