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#21 dethwaker3

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:11 AM

Is this mod for BFME2?
Done with my mod: Go here to download: http://bfme2.heaveng....php?fileid=667
or go here http://forums.revora...showtopic=67026 for some screenshot


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#22 the-king112

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:15 AM

Well i both ideas. Its up to u guys.

I like just being able to spawn in an archer along with Swordsman, i dont particularly care for toggle. Idk, in the movie they switched when they were being shot at. I like having an upgrade though for shields might work.

For elves it could be:
Noldor Warriors/Archers (no shield)
Noldor Spearman- Weaker armor (no shield)
Noldor Lancers - normal armor (upgrade for shield)
Noldor Horse Archers - weaker armor (no shield)
Noldor Elite- Warriors with a sword and shield.

And Deth, its for Rotwk.

Edited by the-king112, 15 October 2008 - 02:22 AM.

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#23 TheWickedOne

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:58 AM

Well, it's based on the 2nd Age, Gil-Galad ruled on that time and if we put normal units like Noldor Warriors without making them into basic and elite units then i don't think other units such as Mordor's Orcs stand a chance unless they are elite orc units. Every army has basic units which start as the early units, then as they upgrade they can buy elite units which are stronger. This is my idea, feel free to disagree:

Barracks:
LV1:
-Noldor Spearmen - Basic
-Noldor Swordmen - Basic
LV2:
-Noldor Guards - Elite Swordmen
LV3:
-Noldor Warriors - Elite
-Haven Spearmen - Elite

Archery Range:
LV1:
-Noldor Archers - Basic
LV2:
-Noldor Longbow Archers - Elite

Stables:
LV1:
-Noldor Knights - Basic
LV2:
-Noldor Horse archers - Elite
LV3:
-Haven Knights

Siege:
-Ballista


This way the basic units will be early game units and the elite ones will be late game units. This way Mordor even has a chance at the elves.

#24 mike_

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 03:06 AM

Cavalry isn't necessary, and siege weaponry did not exist at the time. The battle was mostly infantry-based.

For the ideal Elven units...

Noldo
-Noldorin Swordsmen. Upgrade to spears (replaces Forged Blades); helmets, shields, and other parts of armour (pauldrons, greaves) with Heavy Armour.
-Noldorin Bowmen. Start with longbows. Get an increased range, damage and the Volley function when upgraded with "Craft of the Firstborn" (new name? replaces Fire Arrows).
Silvan
-Oropher's Vanguard. Lightly-armoured; wield axes and shortswords. Fast as hell, high attack and automatically resist fear but have crap health and defense attributes. No upgrades (were ill-geared for war).
-Silvan Archers. Large numbers, like-stats to the Vanguard.
-Lorien Men-at-Arms. Spears. Upgrade to shields and leather armour components. Better health and defence but lower attack than the Vanguard and Archers.

That's all you need really. Siege isn't a factor (technology didn't exist) and Mordor (their only enemy...) didn't have any horses besides those for the Captains and such.

EDIT: As you can see, their wouldn't be much emphasis on base-building, tech trees and such. More based upon the strength of one's units and their individual worth. Ie, the Alliance has relatively small numbers of uber-units, whilst Mordor has massive numbers of SPAMSPAMBACONSPAMHAM units.

Edited by mike_, 15 October 2008 - 03:08 AM.


#25 Lauri

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 06:32 AM

And that's 5 elven units, a good number :p
But you'll also need men :shiftee:

I would suggest spearmen w\shield, swordsmen w\shield, and archers for them, but eh..
That makes 3 archer units in total, 2-3 swordsmen, and 3 spearmen... :shiftee:
I would suggest just having the Noldorin Swordsmen have double-handed swords, like the ones in the movies :shiftee:
If your taking any of mike's ideas that is :p

But then again, if your keeping the other factions around, you should probably make a cavalry unit and siege unit, unless of course, you make a change with making the RotWK walls stronger, and resistant to melee attacks :p

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#26 Hexman

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 06:35 PM

Don´t forget the Dwarves!!!

The heroes can be Gil-Glalad, Elrond, Círdan, Amdír, Oropher, Thranduil, Durin IV, Elendil, Anárion and Isildur for good and Sauron and The 9 Nazgûls for the evil.


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Edited by Hexman, 15 October 2008 - 06:36 PM.

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#27 Lauri

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 08:41 PM

ah, yes.. forgot about the dwarves ;)

not a big surprise though, as it's called Last Alliance of Elves and Men :xcahik_:

And Mordor should have Herumor & Fuinur too...

Black Numenorean lords of the Haradrim. Herumor and Fuinur were Men of Numenor who had been corrupted by Sauron and were therefore known as Black Numenoreans. They established domains in Harad in southern Middle-earth and became powerful lords. Herumor and Fuinur fought for Sauron during the War of the Last Alliance from 3434 to 3441 of the Second Age. The fate of Herumor and Fuinur during the war and following Sauron's defeat is not known.


Edited by Lauri, 15 October 2008 - 08:42 PM.

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#28 TheWickedOne

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:00 PM

I see what you are saying.
So how about

Elves

Heroes:
-Gil-galad
-Elrond
-Cirdan
-Amdir
-Oropher
-Thranduil - Although he wasn't on the battle it self so i don't know.

Noldor Barracks
LV1:
-Noldor Blade Master - Have 2 swords, no shield.
-Noldor Guard - Gain Spear and shield when upgraded.
LV2:
-Noldor Longbow - Gain more range and damage when upgraded.
LV3:
-Faster unit build

Silvan Barracks
LV1:
-Silvan Archers - Upgraded only with better arrow damage.
-Oropher's Vanguard - No upgrades
LV2:
-Lorien Warriors - Can be upgrade with Heavy armor, forged blades and banner carrier.

Forge
LV1:
-Banner carrier
LV2:
-Elven Blades
LV3:
-Elven Armor
-Craft of the Firstborn


Men - Not yet completed in idea

Heroes:
-Elendil
-Isildur - I got a cool skin we can use for him
-Anarion

Barracks
LV1:
-Soldiers of Arnor
LV2:
-Gondorian Longbow
LV3:
Faster unit production

I don't have much ideas for men :( since we are apparently taking out cavalry and siege weapons.

#29 mike_

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:06 PM

Amroth (son of Amdir King of Lorien) and Thranduil were both present - they kept the Silvan Elves' early charge from becoming a rout and took over when their dad's bought it.

And Lauri, that was my suggestions for the Elves only ;) haven't said anything on the Men or Dwarves yet :xcahik_:

For my 'Noldorin Swordsmen' suggestion above, I'd have them use the two-handed swords until upgraded (then going to sword and shield, ending up with spear and shield). See what I'm saying?

The Dwarves shouldn't play a large part IMO - working best as a summon power. There weren't many involved - only the Longbeards. Though, now that I think about it, they were the largest and most warlike House. Meh. Still shouldn't be their own faction IMO.

EDIT: Idea for the Elven heroes' leaderships. The Silvan heroes (Oropher, Thranduil, Amdir and Amroth) would only give leadership to Silvan units, whilst the Noldor ones would give leadership to the Noldor units. Except for Gil-galad...being High-King and all.

Edited by mike_, 15 October 2008 - 09:08 PM.


#30 Lauri

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:28 PM

Well, one thing I'm wondering...


Is this a mod where there are a Men, a Elves, and a Mordor faction? :xcahik_:
I thought it was "Last Alliance" and "Mordor" only...
That's why I thought it could be much.. ;)

And mike... with

And that's 5 elven units, a good number
But you'll also need men

I meant that they were in the same faction, and that if they followed your ideas, then they had a good choice for elves, and then needed men ;)
So, by "you'll" I mean them, not you :)

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#31 mike_

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:56 PM

Yeah :xcahik_: still don't get what you're saying really, but okay ;)

Hmm...Men. Well, they would be the Dunedain of the West, with a few lesser Men (Woodsmen, Northmen (precursors to the Northmen (ancestors of the Rohirrim (aka limited numbers of mounted archers according to Lore)))) acting as allies.

Let's see...

Men.
-Dunedain Infantry. Footmen; swords and shields. Upgrade for a throwing spears power.
-Dunedain Longbowmen. Great range, strength, and accuracy. All-around awesome.
-Lesser Men. Infantry; axes and spears, but toggle to bow. Better name?
-War-Hardened Veterans. Elite sword-and-shield-ers.

All I can think of tbh.

#32 the-king112

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:01 PM

i like mike and lauri's suggestions. The heros sound fine to me, but just take a look at my idea.

I think it should be:

Noldor


Level 1 Barracks:
Noldor Swordsmen- Double handed sword.
Noldor Spearman- No sword, just spears, shield with upgrade
Noldor Archers

Level 2 barracks:
Noldor Longbow Archers- Increased Range, and hit

Level 3:
Noldor Warriors- Sword and Shield
fast production

Arnor/Numenor/Men

Level 1 baracks:
Numenor Soldiers- Shield and Sword
Numenor Archers

Level 2:
Numenor Longbow Archers- Increased hit, and range

Level 3:
Numenor Body Guard- Strong unit, body guard of the elendil and isildur
fast production


Dwarves can be for INN's.


Evil Side

Mordor/Orcs

LVL 1 Barracks:
Orc horde- Regular orc horde force
Orc Archers

LVL 2 Barracks:
Orc Scouts- fast movers, less armor. can toggle between bow or sword
Easterlings- With spears

LVL 3 Barracks:
Black Orcs- Most fiersome orcs, more armor, better combat skills
Orc Captain- brutal bigger orcs. More damage.

HEROES:
Sauron- Takes like 6000 or more to spawn him
Nazgul(s)
Possibly a certain orc or troll?

Edited by the-king112, 15 October 2008 - 10:03 PM.

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#33 mike_

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:03 PM

I think Guard units would work better slaved to the heroes they pertain to.

#34 the-king112

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:04 PM

Well for buttons, the hero could summon them??
they can also be spawned. how bout that?
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#35 Gfire

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:03 PM

Well, the problem with multiple sword, shield and spear Noldor is that they will all look the same. This is also supposed to be simple. The Silvan elves were in the battle (though not shown in the movie) and if they are added all that can be changed. The Silvan elves are the weaker with Noldor being stronger. This seems to be the simplest set:

Elves

Heroes

Gil-galad
Elrond
Cirdan
Amdir
Oropher
Thranduil
Treebeard (Maybe at the Ent moot. He was alive then, so if the Ents are in, he might as well be.)

Units

Lorien Archers (same as current Lorien archers)
Lorien Warriors (same)
Mirkwood Archers (same)
Noldor Spearmen (Spear + sheild, based on Mithlond Sentries)
Noldor Lancers (Spear + shield, based on Rivindell lancers)
Noldor Horse-Archers (based on Lindon horse-archers)
Noldor Warriors (Sword + Bow, same as old but weaker and upgradable, in larger horde)
Ent (same)


Structures


Elven Barracks
-Level 1: Trains Lorien Archers, Lorien Warriors
-Level 2: Trains Noldor Spearmen, Noldor Warriors, Mirkwood Archers

Green Pasture (or stables)
-Level 1: Trains Noldor Lancers
-Level 2: Trains Noldor Horse Archers


This would require the least amount of work to do, I think.

You want these factions, yes?

Elves
Men of the West
Men of the East
Mordor
Dwarves (Unchanged. Only in because of free faction slot.)
Goblins (Same as Dwarves,)

Edited by Gfire, 15 October 2008 - 11:06 PM.

Greetings, community.

#36 TheWickedOne

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:15 PM

Well, for a good mod there needs to be a lot of work. If we rush it then it will not be as good as it could have been if we took our time with it. Based on what i was reading about the war, there were mixed units for Men, the longbows were from Gondor, they were called "Gondorian Longbows", that's why i put that as the name. I was thinking that the Dwarfs could either be summoned units or they could be from Inns, depends on what we decide. OK, we are gonna do this but we gotta agree on something. Are the armies gonna be based on infantry unit power or will they have Siege weapons? We gotta decide on something. Gfire, message me of a way i can communicate with you, like MSM or AIM and Hexman, do the same, message me, Gfire and the-king with a way we can contact you like on AIM or MSM.

#37 Gfire

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:26 PM

This is supposed to be a small(ish) mod, though. Most of us who are interested in helping haven't even modded much before.


Anyway, I can't find anything better about your stuff than mine, even if mine takes less skill to make.
Greetings, community.

#38 the-king112

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 11:48 PM

i made a palantir image of Elendil... kinda too brown... its my first one though. im a gimp expert so yea.

Posted Image


Um anyway, some i disagree with, i thought it was just noldor. but idk.

We need to come to a desicion soon. I like the idea of having a seperate Noldor Warrior and Archer..

i think the warriors should have a two handed sword.... look:

Posted Image

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Edited by the-king112, 15 October 2008 - 11:54 PM.

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#39 TheWickedOne

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:21 AM

By two handed swords you mean like a 2 sided sword right? not 2 separate swords but one which has 2.

The first picture could serve as the army picture for the Noldor army. The second could be a picture of the Spearmen.

Edited by TheWickedOne, 16 October 2008 - 12:22 AM.


#40 Gfire

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:23 AM

What if there was a Silvan training building and a Noldor one? It might require a new model, though.

Noldor Barracks (Like 600 to build)
Lv1: Noldor Warriors, Noldor Archers
Lv2: Noldor Spearmen

Noldor Stables (Like 600 to build)
Lv1: Lancers
Lv2: Horse Archers

Silvan Barracks (Like 350 to build)
Lv1: Lorien Archers, Lorien Warriors
Lv2: Mirkwood Archers

I made some buttons here.

Edit: He means swords you hold with two hands, I think.

Yeah, the first one would be perfect for when you have multiple ones selected. Also, combinable hordes might be kinda cool, as a later feature.

Edited by Gfire, 16 October 2008 - 12:27 AM.

Greetings, community.




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