18 replies to this topic

[Petrenkovich]

One thing is strange with Red Alert 3, and that is since Einstein was eliminated in the time travel back to 1927, then how can the allies still have Chronosphere and Spectrum (Prism) tower..? It was developed from him as far as I remember from both the previous games. And if I remember correct, he also developed some of the russians' core technology, such as the Iron curtain (under pressure).

[OmegaBolt]

Because if they werent in the game people would complain big time.

[Elerium]

EA retconned it, just like they retconned Tiberium Wars. Try not to think too hard about it, they usually say "someone else took up his work and did it without him".

[some_weirdGuy]

i found it annoying that they didn't atleast get rid of prism

chrono tech is to ingrained in the story to get rid of without complaint, but prism was only intoroduced in RA@, and honestly wasn't that big a deal to remove... instead they just renamed it and pretended like it was different

when we first heard that prism wasn't in RA3 people didn't really mind, then we found out about 'spectrum' tech and weren't sure weather it would be just a prism copy, or something new

it turned out to be a prism copy, which i think was lazy of the team to just rename it and pretend everything was ok


the allies tech tree should have had some fairly major change, as Einstein was responsible for more then half their stuff.

i dont mind that they kept chrono, but the others should have gone...

[TX1138]

FutureTech invented Chrono Tech.

The French invented Spectrum Tech.

And Zelinsky probably (re)invented the Iron Curtain.

[some_weirdGuy]

just cause they say someone else made it doesn't mean its ok, it should have been gone, or radically changed...

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

Yes, it does. History heals itslef so the Prism tech is real 'cause history stated it was real @ this time so someone had to invent it by this time.

[OmegaBolt]

Depends if you believe in fate. But yes, technically in an alternate timeline an alternate person could invent the same technology.

[ambershee]

If someone assassinated Einstein in 1927, then Einstein couldn't have invented the Chronosphere in 1946, and so couldn't have accidentally assassinated Hitler in 1924 in the first place - nor would the knowledge of the effect of tampering with the past have existed for the Soviets to do so.

[OmegaBolt]

Yes, so all of time behind you wouldnt follow the same path... but you'd still go forward the same.

[ambershee]

Not quite - Hitler not being in RA3's world hasn't been explained at all. The whole premise of the unchecked soviet growth and aggression was based upon them not having been pressed by the Nazi Germany threat. Since Einstein was also not present to allow the Allies to defeat the Soviets, resulting in RA3's ongoing warfare, where is Stalin, who is also not defeated?

[Nighthawk]

If someone assassinated Einstein in 1927, then Einstein couldn't have invented the Chronosphere in 1946, and so couldn't have accidentally assassinated Hitler in 1924 in the first place - nor would the knowledge of the effect of tampering with the past have existed for the Soviets to do so.

And just like that, a paradox is developed.

Yes, so all of time behind you wouldnt follow the same path... but you'd still go forward the same.

That is, of course, assuming that altering the past has no effect on their own relative present. Or at least, that's what I'm interpreting from your post... correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - Hitler not being in RA3's world hasn't been explained at all. The whole premise of the unchecked soviet growth and aggression was based upon them not having been pressed by the Nazi Germany threat. Since Einstein was also not present to allow the Allies to defeat the Soviets, resulting in RA3's ongoing warfare, where is Stalin, who is also not defeated?

It depends, they could have assassinated Einstein after he had already killed Hitler (thus the RA1 timeline would start to exist in some degree). I don't have RA3, so I'm not familiar with the specifics of the story there. Though you make an interesting point about Stalin... unless they went back to the RA2 period and snuffed Einstein out there.

[ambershee]

The whole thing was an interesting paradox to start with - but was explained by the fact that although Einstein could perhaps alter the past, he would always go back to assassinate Hitler in 1946 - an aspect of the future that couldn't be changed.

This is, as conspiracy theorists suggest, how Nod came to power; with Kane using the same technique to alter the events of the past to suit his future.

Since Kane could travel back to any point in history, from an undetermined time in the Tiberian future, he knows that even if he alters the past, he can't die until after the date at which he last traveled back in time - even if his personal history in between the events is different - hence why you 'can't kill the messiah', and how he comes back after seemingly being defeated repeatedly.

Edited by ambershee, 12 December 2008 - 09:55 PM.

[some_weirdGuy]

Hey, that was an idea i had about kane having a time machine, i put it in the C&C discussion forum, but it didn't perk much conversation :(
see, cause that would explain/reconnect the red alert and tiberium universes, like westwood said they were planning on doing on tiberium twilight/incursion/whatever

Anyway.

the soviets changed time by going back, so maybe the nazis never came into power anyway. maybe hitler still never exsisted, as in the timeline that the time traveling soviets came from hitler was erased from exsistance, meaning no matter what he still doesn't exsist

so its like:
original timeline-------------------------------------------------------------
---------V splits to RA timeline----------------------------------------------(exact copy of original, but not hitler at all)
----------------------------------V splits YR timeline------------------------(exact copy of RA, but stopped dominators)
---------------------------------------------------V splits to RA3 timeline---(exact copy of RA&YR but no Einstein also)

so each time they use the time machine, its creating a new timeline, which has everything the same as the previous timeline, except for the things they changed

so the original one erases hitler, never to come back
the YR one stops yuri's plot
the RA3 one erases Einstein

so not only was there no Hitler in the new timeline(forget the old timeline, its as if it never happened, because hitler never existed at all, was never born), then Einstein was erased creating another new one again. It kept the same stuff as the no-hitler one, but without Einstein as well

its confusing to explain, and i may be wrong, but its just an idea



other then that, maybe the soviets crushed hitler and the nazis before they became a threat?
(or after, and they just still won anyway... might explain why yuri has disappeared, he was jewish, maybe he got killed)

Yes, it does. History heals itslef so the Prism tech is real 'cause history stated it was real @ this time so someone had to invent it by this time.

if that were true we would have prism towers in real life, (as RA & RA2 was just 'real life', but instead Einstein went back to stop hitler)

[Nighthawk]

Perhaps the best thing to do in this situation is just not attempt to understand EA's temporal mechanics... to attempt to do so would overload the pitiful cerebral organs we are all supplied with, as the madness of it all drives one insane.

[some_weirdGuy]

yeah, it is a game after all, it doesn't have to make sense...

[segwayrulz]

yes, but in RA4 someone might of go back and still kill hitler resulting in the timeline making sense, sort of

[Black Temple Gaurdian]

No in RA4 the chineese leader goes back in time and eliminates the Soviet leaders who are eliminating Einstien who is eliminating Hilter and a few things change names and volia. A new game (according to EA).

[Slye_Fox]

@some_weirdGuy;
I'd like to point out an error with your YR timeline split.
That's not how Einstine's new machine worked, it split and merged them.

It made a split to the point where you arived in the past, but once you reached the point you used the machine, the timelines merge and one takes presitence over the other.
As shown itn he end cutscenes.

The soviet time machine in RA3 most likely works on the same princibles as this one, seeign as they did study it when they captured it (beginign of soviet campain).

This could explaine why some of the eliments of RA2 are 'reinvented' in RA3, such as the chronosphere, spectrum/prism tech and the mirage tank.

The merging timelines more than likely worked differently for the Ra3 machine because it wasn't tested.


Well, that's my thery anyway, and seems to make sence of the gibberish EA has come up with.
Well, it makes sence to me anyway.