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#21 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 02:55 AM

Why bother it will only be half life mods getting all 100 positions ? :(
But TEA getting in the top 25 was a great thing so maybe there is still hope yet.

Edited by Radspakr, 25 December 2008 - 02:55 AM.

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#22 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 05:07 AM

:p RJ? *foams at the mouth and falls over* :p If it's all Half-Life mods, that seems pretty biased... ;)
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#23 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 10:44 AM

I can vouch for Source mods (Half-Life mods for the unknowing ppl) that since Sources popularity for modding it actually has an opposite effect and Source mods are often looked over since theirs so many of them


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#24 Ridder Geel

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 11:38 AM

The RC Mod will never be entirely finished ;)
We will always (as long as the RC Mod Team Exists!) be adding some things such as maps and stuff.
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#25 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 08:55 PM

I myself have big plans for my mod as well.

Maybe Revora should have it's own Mod of the Year award since a lot of our mods get ignored.

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#26 ambershee

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 10:19 PM

Insurgency (who were on Revora) WON last year.

Unreal 3 / Crysis should hopefully trample Source this year. There haven't been any real Source releases, and it's getting dated.

As for next years mods - DataRun for the fucking win XD

Maybe. It'll be a push to get it out in a year.

Edited by ambershee, 25 December 2008 - 10:21 PM.


#27 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 06:37 AM

The source engine has been constantly updated with every release of a source game
EG

we have the original HL2 version
Portal Version
TF2 Version
L4D Version

Its better than renaming the engine or keeping the features the same and using a different engine.


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#28 ambershee

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 10:46 PM

There's only so long you can add features / upgrades to an existing engine before it gets to the point where it needs to be replaced entirely. The core code base becomes riddled with redundancy and inefficiency, and likely may not necessarily support certain features that new inclusions might require. Source has lasted a long time, no doubt, but it is getting dated.

Comparing Left 4 Dead as the most recent Source game with it's contemporary rivals of Unreal 3, CryEngine 2 and iD Tech 5, and you can see that it's beginning to seriously lag behind visually, and while it scales down well, it's no longer necessary for an engine to scale down to a late 90s GeForce 4, because so few people in their target market (or indeed many people at all) have that kind of hardware anymore.

Heck, Left 4 Dead doesn't even look as good as Doom 3, which is getting on for 5 years old now.

Oh and psst, the Portal and TF2 version are the same - EP2.

Edited by ambershee, 27 December 2008 - 10:54 PM.


#29 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 04:38 PM

Yeah what he said :p

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#30 Jonasking

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 12:36 AM

I'd make it this

BFME1: RA,Lone Wolf.Return of the Elven Alliance... :p
BFME2:S.E.E,perhaps Rob38 has time to finish Helm's Deep Last Hope.
BFME2 RoTWK: WoA,Rj-RoTWK and if LI return,maybe a public beta of Age of Men.

#31 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:36 AM

There's only so long you can add features / upgrades to an existing engine before it gets to the point where it needs to be replaced entirely. The core code base becomes riddled with redundancy and inefficiency, and likely may not necessarily support certain features that new inclusions might require. Source has lasted a long time, no doubt, but it is getting dated.

Comparing Left 4 Dead as the most recent Source game with it's contemporary rivals of Unreal 3, CryEngine 2 and iD Tech 5, and you can see that it's beginning to seriously lag behind visually, and while it scales down well, it's no longer necessary for an engine to scale down to a late 90s GeForce 4, because so few people in their target market (or indeed many people at all) have that kind of hardware anymore.

Heck, Left 4 Dead doesn't even look as good as Doom 3, which is getting on for 5 years old now.

Oh and psst, the Portal and TF2 version are the same - EP2.


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What!? man where does your logic come from?

Are you saying that Game company's once they've made an awesome engine and then once its brilliant, scrap most of it and start again?

Why would Any one do that!? your statement has no logic, game engines take Years of work.
First of all if support for something becomes redundant IE vertex animations, They simply remove it and its the coders job in to team to keep clean and stable code, Else there not doing there job

2nd Source, Unreal 3, CryEng2 are as powerful as each other and they support different things

As far as I've seen CryEng 2 cant support walls and corridors its all open terrain
and ID's games look like that since they have detail UV bumping with high gloss visual effects, which Source can do, How ever the Devs didn't want any Glossy crap or making every piece of metal look like rusted plastic *cough* Doom3/Quake4

Oh and Doom3/Quake4 made a choice of using Bump mapping on EVERYTHING , Nothing worse than seeing glossy and smooth everything from UV Bumping

And don't judge and engine by its game skin
Just cause how the game looks, DOESN'T say the limits of the engine, Hell look at your "fav" engine it used to support Doom and Quake 1

And lets not mention that engine support the so called acclaimed FEAR, That cant even support doors function properly I wonder if they fixed that in the latest versions

Edited by DIGI_Byte, 29 December 2008 - 11:41 AM.


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#32 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:39 AM

Woah calm down DIGI.
It's not like he insinuated you were gay or something :p

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#33 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 11:43 AM

I hate it when people hurt a engine just cause how the game looks

Although i cant say much about EA's stuff for modders

and rad you don't know if I'm gay or not...

Edited by DIGI_Byte, 29 December 2008 - 11:44 AM.


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#34 Lauri

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:33 PM

An engine doesn't last forever...
He said that source is getting dated, and it's a few years old now, so it is :grin:
Nope, I'm not into game engines, but I'm fairly certain that they'd rather make a new engine, than redo much on the old one, if the time comes where there's to much to change... Unless I'm mistaken (and I might as well be :p), redoing a part means you'll have to "reroute" all the other parts to that new one, ect... yeah, I could be way off :p

And being gay or not doesn't have anything to do with it, so please drop that part... (rad'n dig)

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#35 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 05:52 PM

Awesome!
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#36 ambershee

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:19 PM

What!? man where does your logic come from?


Two years of industry experience as a games technology programmer?

Are you saying that Game company's once they've made an awesome engine and then once its brilliant, scrap most of it and start again?


Essentially, yes. That's why iD Techs 1-5 exist, why four iterations of the Unreal Engine exist, and two iterations of the Source engine and CryEngine.

They may derive a number of things from their predecessors, such as generic math libraries, or certain functionality, but in most cases, especially in the visual department, things change, and they change fast. If you want to keep up to date, you and your engine have to do it too.

Why would Any one do that!? your statement has no logic, game engines take Years of work.


And are used to produce a number of products before becoming insufficient for the task, and being replaced.

First of all if support for something becomes redundant IE vertex animations, They simply remove it and its the coders job in to team to keep clean and stable code, Else there not doing there job


Case study time. You've got iD Tech one, and you used it to build Doom. You have a very simple '3d maze' based engine, it's limited to 'one' floor, so no rooms above rooms or any of that lark. Your enemies, weapons and effects are all sprites.

You want a new product, and you're going to make Quake. You need a new BSP based level design system, a fresh system of polygonal based geometry. You could write these features into the existing engine, but that's completely pointless, since you'd be writing out almost all of the existing scenegraph, physics support and visual systems, and replacing them with completely new systems, you might find it makes more sense to just write what you need from the base up.

Game engines are fairly complex, and are often written in such a way that a large part of the core engine (the scenegraph, and the physics simulation, as an example) are written to be dependent and reliant on features and techniques. When these features are dropped or replaced, you eventually find that your scenegraph, or your physics simulation needs to work in a different way. Now you're starting to rack up features that all need to be replaced at the same time, that are going to affect a lot of other core features. It's gotten to the point where you need to write a new engine.

2nd Source, Unreal 3, CryEng2 are as powerful as each other and they support different things


They do do different things, but let's face it, whilst Unreal 3 and CryEngine 2 both have superb lighting, visual level scripting systems, brush, mesh and terrain based systems, both have foliage renderers, extremely good physics support. Source only has a bare bones implementation of any of that. It was an excellent choice in 2001, it's not any more.

As far as I've seen CryEng 2 cant support walls and corridors its all open terrain
and ID's games look like that since they have detail UV bumping with high gloss visual effects, which Source can do, How ever the Devs didn't want any Glossy crap or making every piece of metal look like rusted plastic *cough* Doom3/Quake4


1) CryEngine 2 is perfectly capable of doing indoor environments, and it can do them a hell of a lot more efficiently than Source - with strong lighting and strong material support. It's terrain and foliage solution however is phenomenal, which is why games using that engine play on that feature.

2) Doom 3 looks like it did because of their choice of art style, and used those techniques, because it became available at the same time as Half-Life 2, and he engine was a contemporary competitor to Source. Rage and Doom 4 look very, very different. Quake Wars looks a fair bit different,

Oh and Doom3/Quake4 made a choice of using Bump mapping on EVERYTHING , Nothing worse than seeing glossy and smooth everything from UV Bumping


You're still comparing it's competitor at the time, when the argument is that it can't compete with CURRENT technologies and titles. It's 2008/9 now, not 2002/3. Things have changed.

And don't judge and engine by its game skin
Just cause how the game looks, DOESN'T say the limits of the engine, Hell look at your "fav" engine it used to support Doom and Quake 1


iD Tech 1 supported Doom, iD Tech 2 supported Quake. They are not the same engine.

And quite frankly, I'll judge an engine by it's games. The whole purpose of an engine is to provide visuals, simulations, networking, a tool set and more to produce a game. Games tend to use the vast majority of the engines features, and tend to capitalise on them as much as possible - because there's no point not taking advantage of what you've got.

And lets not mention that engine support the so called acclaimed FEAR, That cant even support doors function properly I wonder if they fixed that in the latest versions


Jupiter games have had doors. FEAR might not have had doors, but then that's a design decision, not an engine issue.

#37 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:32 PM

Ok everyone has had their thing.
Let's get this back on topic.

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#38 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 01:49 AM

*loud, overblown shouting* I can hardly wait for the next releases of RJ and SEE... That far enough back on topic for you? :grin:
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#39 mike_

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 05:04 AM

Good God, 'shee. Making up for lost time? :grin:


And just to say... OWNED

#40 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:34 AM

I agree with a few things that ambershee says, In fact I see on the same level, How ever I was told that its a waste to rewrite a game engine if 60% of the previous engine was fine, and if you have a clean streamline of functions and what not (im not a programmer) it should be easy to remove and update things where needed.

Although I don't like how he only refereed to the earlier versions of source, Source has had many updates and versions Valve aim for a more realistic approach to there visuals, Instead of going ever board like other games such as Unreal 3, I personally dont like to see everything Blooming or have allot of things smoothed with UV bumping.

The fact is almost every leading edge engine supports things differently and some support some things better that others don't or may not have.
I love the source engine but I do bag out on some of its down sides, as with every other game engine.


And with the Fear engine if you get the original game, and download a mod called FEAR CO-OP you will see the beautiful door function, Don't get it wrong the mod is basically just a series of maps, The door function comes in the map editor and is all hard coded from what I've read.


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