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minor rant on the current Gaza situation


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#21 duke_Qa

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 07:35 AM

If we look back several decades, many parts of Europe would belong to Germany, if we look back several centuries, many parts of Europe would belong to France. It's not always a good idea to look back in time and see how things were to find a solution to a present problem. Especially when the foundation for that situation is religion.

I don't care about how Israel and Palestine figure they should split the lands. What i care about is that Israel finds a way for the Palestine to live peacefully so that they won't have to send rockets in spite against them. after 60 years of this sort of treatment I'm not really surprised that the Palestinians voted for a radical organization. Dissapointed, but not surprised.

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#22 Phil

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 10:31 PM

I don't think a cease fire is a good solution, and I'll state why here. The buffoons in Gaza are the same imbiciles who democratically voted Hamas in as their government in a fair election. It doesn't matter if a couple hundred of them are blown up. They already hate Israel to death (mostly). Secondly, it would let Hamas restock its rockets, which it would, in turn, use against Israel. The Israelis would be stupid to accept a cease fire. I say stay the course. Unlike al-Qaeda, these guys can be killed. After they're all lying dead in parts, maybe things will turn around in Gaza. I would LOVE to see a new Palestinian state in Gaza headed by a non-terrorist group, but only if it accepts Israel's legitimate existance as it's own state. If they cannot agree that Israel should remain existing as-is (just without the rockets), they will likely turn into something like Hamas. Anyways, I think Israel should liberate Lebanon from Hezbollah (funny how they were voted in, too). Like Hamas, they hide behind civillians, as un-innocent as the majority of them are.

You don't understand much of human nature, do you? Do you really believe once Israel killed every Hamas official, the Palestinians would suddenly change their opinions and see that Israel was right all the time? That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while.
All the Israelis are doing at the moment is fuelling hate among the people in the Gaza Strip through their suffering and deaths. If enough of Hamas survives in the underground until the troops have to pull back, they will be stronger than ever before, with the absolute support of just about any islamic nation in this world and thousands of new recruits and supporters.

But not only will support for Hamas and other radical islamic organisations increase drastically, Israel is also taking the risk of increasing antisemitism again, throughout the world. Sounds like a great plan for the future.


Also, Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews, and you would know this if you looked several thousand years back in history. It has been nabbed from them too many times. It should not happen again.

Yeah right.

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#23 Tom

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 11:18 PM

Being anti-zionist (the expansion of israel) is not anti-semitism. Regardless off what israel tries to pass off as anti-semitism, it doesn't mean it is. I have many jewish friends but i still do not believe israel has the right to be doing what it is doing. It is purposely and has been purposely murdering palastinians for a long time. Hamas, Israel, pfff, whats the difference.

#24 duke_Qa

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:59 PM

It seems that the church has been saying alot of sensible things lately.

Pop condemns Gaza violence after aide angers jews

While the pope seemed at pains to make his speech diplomatically even-handed -- calling for the respect of the legitimate aspirations of both sides -- one of his senior aides was not so delicate with his comments about the siege of Gaza.
On Wednesday, his point man for justice and peace issues delivered the Vatican's toughest criticism of Israel since the latest Middle East crisis began, calling Gaza a "big concentration camp" in an interview with an Italian online newspaper.

"Defenceless populations are always the ones who pay. Look at the conditions in Gaza: more and more, it resembles a big concentration camp", said Cardinal Renato Martino, president of the Vatican's Council for Justice and Peace.
[...]
"HOLOCAUST DENIER"

The Simon Wiesenthal Center denounced Martino, whose informal title is Vatican "justice minister", and compared him to a Holocaust denier.

"These remarks are untrue, distort the memory of the Holocaust and are only used against Israel by terrorist organizations and Holocaust deniers," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean of the center.


naturally it was not directly said by the pope, but it sure as hell got some Israelis riled up

the most annoying part is that they instantly run and cry holocaust-denier and the typical dose of shit. if you are saying that the situation in Gaza looks like a holocaust situation, I wouldn't call that denying that it happened, but confirming it. Seems that examples of holocaust horrors is patented by Israel, and they are only to be used in defense of Israel.

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#25 Tom

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 07:10 PM

http://digg.com/worl...dier?OTC-fb-fc1

#26 duke_Qa

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 09:36 PM

Nice work she's doing there, although I bet she is a citizen of a western nation by the sound of her English. If it wasn't for the camera they would probably have suckerpunched her down to the ground and kept firing. Dunno what ammunition they are firing with, would have guessed rubber bullets.

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#27 Tom

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Posted 08 January 2009 - 09:39 PM

If they were real bullets would she have got in the way? I don't know. Obviously they are using real bullets in most places, as alot of people have been killed. And i heard on the radio today that 3 UN schools had been bombed. Not sure how valid that is, but i know israel purposely bombed 1 school a few days ago killing about 54 people.

#28 Casen

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:20 AM

The Palestinians and all other Muzzies should just be wiped from the face of the earth and we'd never have this problem.

#29 Vortigern

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 12:32 AM

Once again, Kacen, you have summed up the West's problems in one obscenely racist comment. That's a talent, you know.
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#30 Elvenlord

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:23 AM

Or we could just say to hell with it and blow the entire region off the face of the earth :p

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#31 Copaman

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 01:27 AM

*Red, White, and Blue Facepalm for Kacen*

Dude, I'm sorry, but WTF? I mean honestly, no wonder the rest of the world thinks America are a bunch of dipshit hicks. Seriously... hopefully someday the world will realize we're not all like you but until then please do us the favor of shutting the fuck up.

===

And to contribute what little I can to this conversation, I back Israel nearly 100% in this conflict. Somehow, I get the feeling that if someone was shooting rockets into my home area I'd wanted to kick the shit out of them too.

However, bombing a school? Really? When they knew damn well it wasn't a hideout for Hamas agents? That's slightly stupid...

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#32 duke_Qa

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:30 PM

Somehow, I get the feeling that if someone was shooting rockets into my home area I'd wanted to kick the shit out of them too.


hehe, then consider the amount of rockets and bombs that Israel is pumping onto Gaza. if it was eye for an eye, then the Israelis better find some prisoners to blow up instead of civilians...

Edited by duke_Qa, 09 January 2009 - 08:34 PM.

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#33 Copaman

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 10:26 PM

hehe, then consider the amount of rockets and bombs that Israel is pumping onto Gaza. if it was eye for an eye, then the Israelis better find some prisoners to blow up instead of civilians...



Honestly (unless I've missed something in which case I will promptly shut up), I can't see how Gaza hasn't had it coming.

I agree with your point on eye for an eye, but looking with an inexperienced eye (no pun intended) from a sheer military-political standpoint it's not exactly a bad move - bomb the shit out of everyone so that the masses realize they brought it upon themselves. It's their fault for electing a now-radical group to power and then allowing that group to shoot rockets off into Israel. I would expect no less from someone attacking the US if we were shooting our rockets at them. *cough cough* Iraq and the war on "terror" *cough cough*
Will it work? Probably not... it will only serve to piss the people of Gaza off even more thus resulting in more rockets etc etc etc downward spiral and whatnot. *looks at Iraqis and the US (although this is a different situation there are similarities to be drawn)*

The flipside of the above is this: I would be suprised if, at the time Hamas was elected to power in Gaza, the people of Gaza knew that Hamas was going to turn out to be radical 'rocketshooters' (My basis for this is that the election was supervised by the US IIRC. Knowing the US, we would have stepped in if an active terrorist cell was elected to power.). The Israelis should have organized their campaign with one objective and one objective only: take down Hamas, effectively stopping the rocket based attacks on Israel. There is really no need to kill the innocent, all they did, after all, was cast their vote.

Long and short: Gaza has had it coming, but shame on Israel for killing without discrimination. The citizens of Gaza may not be the ones to blame, unless they were aware Hamas was a radical faction; in which case, they are. If they were not aware Hamas was a radical faction, then I side with Israel 100%, although not without caution.

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#34 Hostile

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 05:37 AM

When your God tells you to kill me, than I have an issue with your God.

#35 duke_Qa

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 12:50 PM

I can't say i am a fan of the islamists thoughts that every land that once was under Muslim control should be Muslim again(Spain, eastern Europe, etc. Anything that was under Muslim military control for five minutes). It's one of the main drives for the fanatics in Iran and Hamas and other radical groups. A majority of these groups doesn't give a damn about the Palestine, in fact for them the more Palestinians that dies is a good thing. They want to turn the Israel-palestine situation back into a religious conflict instead of a earthly one. Earthly problems can be solved(territories, resources, rights), religious ones are impossible because of their fantastical and hypocritical nature.


But in the end, if Israel thinks that they can bomb Hamas to smithereens they are sorely misguided. There are approximately 20 000 soldiers in the military wing of Hamas. if they were to blow up all those soldiers this war would have been alot more bloody and people would have reacted. I dunno how precise modern weaponry is, but i think earlier wars had a 10/1 civillian/military death ratio.

Edited by duke_Qa, 10 January 2009 - 12:50 PM.

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#36 CodeCat

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:47 PM

Also, Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews, and you would know this if you looked several thousand years back in history. It has been nabbed from them too many times. It should not happen again.

America rightfully belongs to its native population. Move back to England or wherever your ancestors came from.
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#37 Copaman

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:56 PM

America rightfully belongs to its native population. Move back to England or wherever your ancestors came from.


Gladly. I'd like a change of scenery. :wink_new:

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#38 Casen

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:29 PM

Also, Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews, and you would know this if you looked several thousand years back in history. It has been nabbed from them too many times. It should not happen again.

America rightfully belongs to its native population. Move back to England or wherever your ancestors came from.


You support us giving the land back to the natives, but you also support giving Palestinians back the land?

Explain.

Also the natives were barbarians. The P.C. shit you see about them being "peaceful" is liberal propaganda.

#39 Vortigern

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:42 PM

I have a feeling CodeCat may have just been proving a point that I have seen stated over and over again in various threads. You cannot use history as a determinant for who owns where. It just doesn't work. Should Britain still own Australia and the USA and India and bits of China? Should France still own Spain and Naples and most of Germany? Should the Jews own Israel? Should the Muslims own Israel? Should the Christians own Israel? All of them have held it at various points in history, and frankly, none of it matters right now. If the Israelis are strong enough to hold it, good luck to them. It's their bad luck to be in the centre of one of the most volatile regions in the world. Alternatively, it's their fault it's that way, but who cares?

By the way, Kacen, on a semantic note, you are also a barbarian. Barbarian comes from the Greek 'barbaros' meaning 'anyone not a Greek'. These days it means anyone uncivilised, but civilisation is not black and white. I suppose you'd call the ancient Britons barbarians too, but they had a far more complex and well-structured political, religious and social system than many places today. They just hadn't invented armour or under-floor heating so they were classed as barbarians. It means nothing.
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#40 Hostile

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 04:06 AM

I believe the person who currently living where they are have the most right to continue living there. Really, whomever has the guns does most of the talking.




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