Jump to content


Photo

minor rant on the current Gaza situation


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#41 CIL

CIL

    Ex-troll

  • Members
  • 1,330 posts
  • Location:Ithaca, NY for school and Phoenix, AZ on breaks
  • Projects:Roaming the forums in the guise of a guest
  •  Liberal-turned-libertarian (with conservative tendencies)

Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:28 AM

I don't think a cease fire is a good solution, and I'll state why here. The buffoons in Gaza are the same imbiciles who democratically voted Hamas in as their government in a fair election. It doesn't matter if a couple hundred of them are blown up. They already hate Israel to death (mostly). Secondly, it would let Hamas restock its rockets, which it would, in turn, use against Israel. The Israelis would be stupid to accept a cease fire. I say stay the course. Unlike al-Qaeda, these guys can be killed. After they're all lying dead in parts, maybe things will turn around in Gaza. I would LOVE to see a new Palestinian state in Gaza headed by a non-terrorist group, but only if it accepts Israel's legitimate existance as it's own state. If they cannot agree that Israel should remain existing as-is (just without the rockets), they will likely turn into something like Hamas. Anyways, I think Israel should liberate Lebanon from Hezbollah (funny how they were voted in, too). Like Hamas, they hide behind civillians, as un-innocent as the majority of them are.

You don't understand much of human nature, do you? Do you really believe once Israel killed every Hamas official, the Palestinians would suddenly change their opinions and see that Israel was right all the time? That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while.
All the Israelis are doing at the moment is fuelling hate among the people in the Gaza Strip through their suffering and deaths. If enough of Hamas survives in the underground until the troops have to pull back, they will be stronger than ever before, with the absolute support of just about any islamic nation in this world and thousands of new recruits and supporters.

But not only will support for Hamas and other radical islamic organisations increase drastically, Israel is also taking the risk of increasing antisemitism again, throughout the world. Sounds like a great plan for the future.


Also, Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews, and you would know this if you looked several thousand years back in history. It has been nabbed from them too many times. It should not happen again.

Yeah right.


I do not believe it will improve the love/hatred of Israel in Palestine in the slightest bit. But one thing it would do is scare the "civilians" (if you can call them that) to death so that they would not go terrorist. Essentially, it sends the message "if you fire rockets at you, we will bomb your entire neighborhood and vaporize you, your neighbors, your friends and your children."

Anyways, the Israelites founded Israel. Plus, Jerusalem was founded by them and is located where a large percentage of the Jewish population is located. If it were to come under the control of the Palestinians, you'd have absolute HELL in the entire Middle-East. And don't even bother bringing up Istanbul. There are too many Muslims and Turks in Turkey and Istanbul for the Italians to lay claim to it, as well as the rest of the country.

Anyways, I believe Hybrid said earlier that being anti-zionist and anti-semitist are different things. Technically, they are, but if you want Israel to become part of a Muslim state, you likely, if not certainly, have some hatred of Jews.

Edited by King Telemnar, 14 January 2009 - 06:34 AM.

I'm creeping, not gone.

#42 Puppeteer

Puppeteer

    title available

  • Global Moderators
  • 2,947 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  •  Faute de Mieux
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Magazine Staff/Global Moderator

Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:34 PM

the buffoons in Gaza are the same imbiciles who democratically voted Hamas in as their government in a fair election. It doesn't matter if a couple hundred of them are blown up.

Like Hamas, they hide behind civillians, as un-innocent as the majority of them are.

bomb the shit out of everyone so that the masses realize they brought it upon themselves. It's their fault for electing a now-radical group to power


From this thread I'm getting a strong vibe of how the civilians have brought it on themselves. They elected a political party, which turned out to be a poor decision on their part, and now the voters are being blamed. That the voters have deserved for all the shit to suddenly hit the fan, because they elected the Hamas party. Does that make all the Germans of 1933-45 to blame? I need not divulge what happened as a result. What about the Britains of 1979-90? I honestly don't believe that you can say that the Gaza civilians deserve a full invasion to the extent of schools being intentionally bombed and international relief becoming restricted. Regardless of whether Hamas is totally to blame, or Israel, or 50/50, you can't sit back and apathetically condone the attacks against civilians. On either side of the border.

Edited by Puppeteer, 14 January 2009 - 08:36 PM.


#43 duke_Qa

duke_Qa

    I've had this avatar since... 2003?

  • Network Staff
  • 3,837 posts
  • Location:Norway
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Artist

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:05 PM

Anyways, I believe Hybrid said earlier that being anti-zionist and anti-semitist are different things. Technically, they are, but if you want Israel to become part of a Muslim state, you likely, if not certainly, have some hatred of Jews.


Turning Israel into a Muslim state would be impossible unless all Israelis got nuked off the map, and i can't see anyone wishing for that(although i am totally for making all of these holy cities they fight for uninhabitable by all parties. Drop a ton of radioactive waste over Jerusalem, make it uninhabitable for 50-100 years. Get all parties out or let them rot away in their ignorance. With no people around to argue about who's got the right to these cities, a few things should get better)

But one thing it would do is scare the "civilians" (if you can call them that) to death so that they would not go terrorist. Essentially, it sends the message "if you fire rockets at you, we will bomb your entire neighborhood and vaporize you, your neighbors, your friends and your children."


Hah, if someone blew up half my family do you think i would think happy thoughts like "Oh I'm so glad that I didnt get killed, I better not do anything against them. After all, a big chunk of my life has been ripped out by a bomb, so the rest surely must be used to enjoy life at it's fullest. And boy life is GOOD here on the Gaza-strip! Once that patrol-boat stops shooting warning shots after the other beach-goers, I'll put on some sun-lotion lie down to work on my tan."

"We are as dead until the war is over" is a standard state of mind for soldiers in war. They resign themselves to this fact so that they can be more efficient. Allows for more effective soldiering after all. If someone has no life to return to, you get a tragic situation where they either get depressed or damaged, or they go aggressive and start fighting like a wounded animal.

they are "terrorists" because we've allowed Israel to abuse them for ages.

Israel had its dark time of terrorism for liberty as well. The Stern gang/Lehi attacked british officers and hotels. they even asked Nazi Germany for support against the brits and had plenty of sympathy for the far-right politics that was popular in the axis nations. After Israel actually became a nation, these mostly dispersed right into different governmental parts of Israel...

"I give you private information on corporations for free and I'm a villain. Mark Zuckerberg gives your private information to corporations for money and he's 'Man of the Year.'" - Assange


#44 Phil

Phil

    Force Majeure

  • Network Leaders
  • 7,971 posts
  • Location:Switzerland
  • Projects:Revora, C&C:Online
  •  Thought Police
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Network Leader
  • Donated
  • Association

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:23 PM

I do not believe it will improve the love/hatred of Israel in Palestine in the slightest bit. But one thing it would do is scare the "civilians" (if you can call them that) to death so that they would not go terrorist. Essentially, it sends the message "if you fire rockets at you, we will bomb your entire neighborhood and vaporize you, your neighbors, your friends and your children."

You can call them civilians just like you can call non-military people in the US civilians. Actually you should rather apply that remark to Israel.
It might have slipped your mind that violent scare tactics might not have the long-term success, unless they set up some nazist kind of regime in the Gaza Strip (well, some people already call it a concentration camp anyway).
Also, does that mean you support the slaughtering of innocents because a handful of people in the same region fired rockets into Israel?

Anyways, the Israelites founded Israel. Plus, Jerusalem was founded by them and is located where a large percentage of the Jewish population is located. If it were to come under the control of the Palestinians, you'd have absolute HELL in the entire Middle-East. And don't even bother bringing up Istanbul. There are too many Muslims and Turks in Turkey and Istanbul for the Italians to lay claim to it, as well as the rest of the country.

So, whom does New York belong to then? Native Americans? The French? The Dutch? The British? Historic facts don't matter at all. Times change, populations change, peoples move.
I have absolutely no problem with the fact that the state of Israel exists. However, I do have a problem with their expansionist behaviour. Thanks to the west, they are the strongest force in the region and they fully use that strength to do as they please and dominate the others. Their nationalist movement doesn't even have any interest in peace and a long-term solution. Instead they use the mutual aggression for their own profit.
I can tell you though, the day the western support ends, they will be massacred.

Anyways, I believe Hybrid said earlier that being anti-zionist and anti-semitist are different things. Technically, they are, but if you want Israel to become part of a Muslim state, you likely, if not certainly, have some hatred of Jews.

Antisemitism is the prejudice and hate against Jews as a religious or racial group. Anti-zionism simply means opposition to Israel's political movement, sometimes even to Israel's existence. The two are simply uncomparable, even though they often appear together because antisemitic people are of course also anti-zionist. Personally, I'm partly anti-zionist, as in I don't support their expansionism and I believe it's wrong that they still hold most of the territories they occupied in the Six-Day War. I am by no means antisemitic, though.

That the voters have deserved for all the shit to suddenly hit the fan, because they elected the Hamas party.

That's actually the legitimation bin Laden used to justify the attack on US civilians. Funny how similar everything is in the end, isn't it?

revorapresident.jpg
My Political Compass

Sieben Elefanten hatte Herr Dschin
Und da war dann noch der achte.
Sieben waren wild und der achte war zahm
Und der achte war's, der sie bewachte.


#45 Puppeteer

Puppeteer

    title available

  • Global Moderators
  • 2,947 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom
  •  Faute de Mieux
  • Division:Community
  • Job:Magazine Staff/Global Moderator

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:58 PM

That the voters have deserved for all the shit to suddenly hit the fan, because they elected the Hamas party.

That's actually the legitimation bin Laden used to justify the attack on US civilians. Funny how similar everything is in the end, isn't it?

Huh, hopefully that might spark some empathy then. Their idea of legitimation is not always moral justification.

#46 Hostile

Hostile

    Benefitting Humanity Simply by Showing Up!

  • Veterans
  • 9,551 posts
  • Location:Washington DC
  •  T3A Founder
  • Division:Revora
  • Job:Global Administrator
  • Donated
  • Association

Posted 18 January 2009 - 05:54 AM

Every group of people will pay the price for those whom they voted into office.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users