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#41 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 11:04 AM

I agree the engine isn't as limited as it seems.
BFME has been out some 5 years or so and there are still great mods in production and new things being done.
That's not even counting BFME 2.

The BFME series is a niche it doesn't get the press or developer support like Source mods but we have a loyal fanbase and a bunch of very dedicated modders in this community.

It is not beyond imagining that a BFME series mod makes the top 100 or even better.
TEA didn't just break the top 100 didn't it also get in the top 25 of it's category.

We have (in my opinion) some even bigger contenders this year so let's just keep voting and see how we go.

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#42 adummy

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 06:25 PM

Whatever... so I guess all my work means little because I chose a bad engine. You know, if you dislike BFME so much, than why stick around? :)

Again Rob, I am not going after you. I still look forward to when Last Hope gets released. And I don't hate BFME. I said the engine is bad compared to other games. This is a terrible game but I enjoy it.
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#43 ambershee

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 08:01 PM

Unfortunately I agree with ambershee to a degree, but not just to BFME but all RTS mods, Even if you add new units and change game play around, its still a plain old RTS, The only famous one that changes the RTS is DoTA and that has changed the gameplay from an RTS style to more of an RPG,


That's not really so much the issue. If you want to mod, and create an RTS, more often than not, choosing an RTS to work with is going to be the obvious choice. The trick is, for a truly awe-inspiring work, you need to totally shake up the original formula, like how most popular FPS mods do. Think Counter-Strike to Half-Life - at it's core, it's still just an FPS, but you can't argue that the changes really made a difference in how you percieve it.

For instance, did you know you can abuse certain logics in BfME 2 to allow for units with destructible components, or create things like working 'energy shields'. Totally useless in a mod that just adds to LOTR - but think about what you could do if you were to change the setting, to say, something akin to Supreme Commander? This is something I've always wanted to do myself with BfME 2 - but there's just no interest in something like that in the community :(

Ouch... don't really agree with BFME mods not having any good material to show, but that's your opinion I guess. Bash us all you want, I'm still proud of my mod and the BFME modding community in general.

It is not a bash on us, it is a bash on the game. The engine is extremely limited compared to others. The best bfme mods are still bad in the entire gaming mod community.


I wouldn't say that they're bad, because they're not bad at all, a lot of the mods here are pretty good. They're just not the same thing as the big hitters and award winners.

It's less that the engine is limited and more we have limited access to it.
If we had access to the hardcoded files we could make our mods a lot more interesting.
But we do what we can with the little we've got, so I think credit has to be due for what we do.


Yeah, it's the case that you're limited in what you can do - but I'm not sure you guys really do do enough with what you have. You have the ability to import custom animated skeletal meshes of some pretty hefty complexity, as an example - but I don't think I've ever seen a BfME mod that's done it, most custom contents tends to come from 'Frankenstein' meshing, which isn't held in as high regard, and doesn't require the same technical merit - nor does it have the same effect for anyone who sees it :)

It all comes down to opinion on how you define what a good and/or successful mod is. Yes, RTS are limited on what you can do with them, and the engine really limits things on the techical quality on par with other genres/current games. Without extreme effort, you can't change an RTS to a FPS, a racer, or something completely different. With the large amount of content needed in a RTS, a total conversion take an incredible amount of time/energy. And while technically I could probably transform BFME into something else completely, what's the point other than to say that I did?


Well, no - you can't turn BfME, nor most RTS games out there into anything but another RTS with similar workings - you're just plain limited with what you can work with, just like Radspakr mentioned. FPS games are exceptionally popular choices, because you can do more with them. There are FPS mods which break the original mold, and a lot of them. You'll find a lot of third person adventure games, flight sims, racing games and puzzle games on these engines, because they have a *real* SDK to work with, one that allows you to well, actually develop software, instead of fiddling with configuration files and asset archives.

More or less however, you've described how the local attitude and eptitude behaves in the BfME community. In the communities for a lot of the more modded games (Generals, Unreal, Half-Life), the attitude is very different. It's not a question of "why should I bother?" - it's a question of "what can I do, and how can I achieve it?".

A lot of projects arise on other games, because the modder wants the technical challenge, and wants to put in the extra work to create something extraordinary. They also want to learn, and they want to use their absolute best cunning to make things work in a manner unbefitting of the original game. It's an entirely different experience, and attracts and entirely different 'cast' of modders. You'll be sat there thinking of 'how to add to the game and improve it', and someone else will be sat thinking of 'what can I actually do with what I have, and how can I capitalise on it?'.

#44 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 12:05 AM

More or less however, you've described how the local attitude and eptitude behaves in the BfME community. In the communities for a lot of the more modded games (Generals, Unreal, Half-Life), the attitude is very different. It's not a question of "why should I bother?" - it's a question of "what can I do, and how can I achieve it?".

A lot of projects arise on other games, because the modder wants the technical challenge, and wants to put in the extra work to create something extraordinary. They also want to learn, and they want to use their absolute best cunning to make things work in a manner unbefitting of the original game. It's an entirely different experience, and attracts and entirely different 'cast' of modders. You'll be sat there thinking of 'how to add to the game and improve it', and someone else will be sat thinking of 'what can I actually do with what I have, and how can I capitalise on it?'.


I'll have to disagree with you in part at least.
To say that we don't push the engine isn't true there are mods out there that do things that haven't been done.
RJ's Camera thing is innovate feature,Helms Deep last hope uses map scripting with coding to do things I didn't think were possible,there's also Grims Hero mod an oldie that changed the game there others I could mention.
There are some features we haven't fully explored...yet.

I would have hate for an air of pessimism to fill the community.

Perhaps it's time we started to get some more modellers,animators and texturers in.
A few more players couldn't hurt either.

Edited by Radspakr, 11 January 2009 - 12:13 AM.

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#45 Rob38

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 02:48 AM

So I think we all can agree that BFME has its limits and does not have as many moddable features as other games. This, in turn, causes mods to have certain limits on new gameplay and such. This doesn't make mods for BFME bad, but instead they all have certain limits. Like Rad said though, we have done quite a lot with what is available to us and we still are creating new and innovative features. :p The mods Rad listed are some prime examples of this. :xcahik_:

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#46 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 03:38 AM

I should have listed my mod like I was going to :p

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#47 adummy

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 03:45 AM

So I think we all can agree that BFME has its limits and does not have as many moddable features as other games. This, in turn, causes mods to have certain limits on new gameplay and such. This doesn't make mods for BFME bad, but instead they all have certain limits. Like Rad said though, we have done quite a lot with what is available to us and we still are creating new and innovative features. :p The mods Rad listed are some prime examples of this. :xcahik_:

Agreed.
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#48 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 04:01 AM

That's not really so much the issue. If you want to mod, and create an RTS, more often than not, choosing an RTS to work with is going to be the obvious choice. The trick is, for a truly awe-inspiring work, you need to totally shake up the original formula, like how most popular FPS mods do. Think Counter-Strike to Half-Life - at it's core, it's still just an FPS, but you can't argue that the changes really made a difference in how you percieve it.


What i meant was, Not matter what you choice, FPS or RTS it all fall down on game play, that's one large issue why most mod wont get a MOTY since most of them are simple mods, like new units, reskins and new spells or weapons, almost every mod that's made it in the MOTY awards had some sort of change in itlike your Counter strike VS HL:DM to your Tremulous VS Quake3


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#49 CIL

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:09 AM

Best upcomming mod: Rhovanion Alliance
Reason- No releases, but obvious signs of work, awesome quality skins and super realistic

Best BFME I Mod: The 4th Age
Reason- Good skins, custom anims, balanced (save for Eldaravir)

Best BfME Mod: SEE
Reason- Good skins, immensely balanced, only good thing ever to grace BFME II

Best RotWK Mod: Wars of Arda
Reason- I've seen that which you won't see until the next release... And trust me, it's BIG!

Edited by King Telemnar, 11 January 2009 - 05:13 AM.

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#50 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:31 AM

what about lonewolf? telemnar


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#51 Devon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:23 AM

Personal choices...I'd put the fourth age, HDLH, and RJ as mine...but again, that's personal.

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#52 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 08:16 AM

then why did you tell us :p

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#53 adummy

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 09:17 AM

what about lonewolf? telemnar

it appears he is saying he likes other mods more.
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#54 Devon

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 03:46 PM

@Rad, I wasn't criticizing, just pointing out that everyone has different thoughts about that.

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#55 Lauri

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:09 PM

I'd put TEA, SEE and RJ up... RA for unreleased...
I've voted on those (and more), which means I've done my part..
If any of you have hopes for any of them getting on a top 100, vote yourself :wink_new:
Getting on the list would have been a really good achievement for the modders of the mod, since it can't win.. If a BFME mod wins, then I'll laugh..

And I, for one, don't need a better engine or game to make my mod, so I find BFME a good game to mod, for my mod.. Other mods wants to add new and hard stuff to the games (Naval stuff for BFME1, ect..) That's when it becomes tricky :thumbsupsmiley:

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#56 Ridder Geel

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 05:33 PM

I also have voted on all the BFME mods that i could find :thumbsupsmiley:
I hope that everyone on their part does the same :wink_new:
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#57 Radspakr Wolfbane

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 10:37 PM

I voted for all the mods I could remember everyone should do the same.

And I, for one, don't need a better engine or game to make my mod, so I find BFME a good game to mod, for my mod.. Other mods wants to add new and hard stuff to the games (Naval stuff for BFME1, ect..) That's when it becomes tricky tongue.gif

You just reminded me that I still haven't got naval stuff working *sigh*

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#58 ambershee

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:44 PM

Doesn't randomly voting for any and all BfME mods completely defy the point of a mod of the year competition? You should be voting for the mods and games that deserve the title.

#59 Ridder Geel

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:58 PM

So you say that a mod for BFME does not deserve the title?
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#60 mike_

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 12:26 AM

He says picking them just because the mod is for BFME isn't right. Which is correct - vote as a judge, not as a fanboy :wink_new:




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