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Tiberian Tide - A concept to make CNC story "gel"(


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#1 Allied General

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 12:08 PM

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There has been some thought on producing a game which would come between the original Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn. I have tried to come up with a title that reflects the changes we would see in that game. The ore based economy of Red Alert would be transformed into a Tiberian based one, and new technologies would be hinted at. What would we see as the world changed? What would be the result of this Tiberian Tide ? One problem that the designers would have to deal with is how to explain away certian technologies that were lost, such as the Iron Curtian, the Gap Gererator, and the Chronosphere. One possible "magic wand" is Tiberium itself. We could say that Tiberium changes the environment on Earth so that these technologies no longer works as they used to. We were beginning to see the effects even during the first Red Alert. Remember the Chronal Vortex? This let's us reshuffle the world as we need to.

The Soviet Story: At the end of the original Red Alert the Soviet Union had built an empire that covered all of Europe. The Brotherhood of Nod had also managed to install a puppet ruler. Now, twenty years later, the cost of maintaining the empire was beginning to break apart what Stalin had created. The internal pressures were brought to a head when an explosion (another failure of the Iron Curtain?) destroyed the reviewing stand at the May Day parade. With the Soviet leadership in chaos the Brotherhood of Nod was forced to take a more open role, one which they were not totally prepared for.
Soviet Toys: While the Chronosphere technology was never recovered after the death of Einstein at the hands of an unidentified german, the Soviets had a few developments. One area which was worked on was to mold their forces into something that was more mobile and able to respond quickly to different trouble spots. While there would be some carry overs from the older Soviet inventory, most of the units would be newer and designed to be flexible. One example would be the Mobile HQ, which would not only act as a radar site but also work as a moble SAM site.

Red Alert
Attack Dog
Rifle Infantry
Grenadier
Flame Infantry
Engineer
V2 Launcher
Heavy Tank
Mammoth Tank
AP Mine Layer
Radar Jammer
Ore Truck
MCV
Naval Transport
Submarine
Yak
Mig
Spy Plane
Badger Bomber
Hind
Chinook

Tiberian Tide
Light Infantry
Rocket Infantry
Flame Infantry
Special Forces
Engineer
SSM Launcher
BMP Scout
Medium Tank
Heavy Tank
Mobile HQ
Harvestor
MCV
Landing Craft
Gunboat
Submarine
Mig Fighter
Blinder Bomber
Hind Gunship
Transport Helicopter

Tiberian Dawn
Minigunner
Rocket Infantry
Flame Infantry
Chem Warrior
Commando
Engineer
Mobile Artillery
Nod Buggy
Recon Bike
Light Tank
Flame Tank
Stealth Tank
Harvestor
MCV
Hovercraft
Cargo Plane
Attack Helicopter
Transport Helicopter

However, there are some technologies which should not be available, or should only be hinted at as in the experimental stage. These include the Obilisk of Light, the Stealth Tank and the Flame Tank. We might surmise that the Iron Curtain technology became less stable and finally useless with the introduction of Tiberium to Earth. Part of the research to correct this might eventually lead to Nod's stealth technology. Remember, Kane is here and he needs to recover Einstien's time travel technology so that he can make those statements in Tiberian Sun that he does.

The Allied Story: When the Soviet Union conquered Europe it was left the those outside of Europe, such as the United States, and perhaps China, to stop the empire from expanding evener further. The UN had already established GDI as a military force during WWII, so it was natural to pump funds and money into this organization. However, GDI never really had the resources to take on the Soviet Empire, all it could do is protect the borders of the remaining free countries. With signs that the Empire may break apart, GDI faces an even more dangerous time.

GDI Toys: Several of the Allied units will be adopted with little change, such as the APC and the Medium Tank. GDI's super-weapon for Tiberian Dawn could be a space-based mirv-launcher that is able to lob a dozen missiles at an area. At one point the GDI brass will openly mention that they would like to develope something a little more precise. Also, one mission must be to capture an old Soviet Mammoth Tank so that it can be studied, and eventually duplicated in Tiberian Dawn.

Red Alert
Attack Dog
Rifle Infantry
Rocket Soldier
Thief
Spy
Medic
Tanya
Engineer
Artillery
Ranger
APC
Light Tank
Medium Tank
AT Mine Layer
Mobile Gap Gen.
Ore Truck
MCV
Naval Transport
Gunboat
Destroyer
Cruiser
Cargo Plane
Longbow
Chinook

Tiberian Tide
Light Infantry
Rocket Infantry
Combat Medic
Delta Force
HazMat Team
Engineer
Rocket Truck
Jeep
APC
Medium Tank
Tank Destroyer
Mobile HQ
Harvestor
MCV
Landing Craft
Gunboat
Destroyer
Harrier
Chinook

Tiberian Dawn
Minigunner
Grenade Infantry
Commando
Engineer
MLRS Launcher
Humm-Vee
APC
Medium Tank
Mammoth Tank
Harvestor
MCV
Hovercraft
Gunboat
ORCA
Chinook

Many of the missions for GDI will be to help the Soviet Empire to collapse and to protect the rest of the world from the dangers a paniced Soviet Union would unleash. At one point GDI must become aware of the Brotherhood of Nod, though they may not fully understand that it was Nod who killed Stalin and installed a puppet ruler. Sadly, in this universe both Tanya Adams and Einstein must die. Otherwise we're bumping into the Red Alert universe. However, we've got a ton of forshadowing that we can drop in that would lead us up to Tiberian Dawn.
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#2 ComradeJ

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Posted 30 December 2003 - 09:23 PM

The GDI was formed as a reaction to the Nod -_-
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#3 Allied General

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 09:54 AM

You don't say :shock: Its from Afterglow and its a good plot to explain all the messed up junk...
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#4 Kazyumi

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Posted 02 January 2004 - 04:17 PM

You don't say :shock: Its from Afterglow and its a good plot to explain all the messed up junk...


ever so true, wish Westwood ever made the real turn of tide known. :roll:

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#5 Shinigami

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 07:24 PM

IMO, it's useless and stupid to make a game that comes between RA and TD. There was no war between RA and TD.

After the war between the Allies and Soviets, the world returned to peace. Later, Nod appeared, and, to counter their legal weakness against Nod's not-exactly-illegal actions, the UN formed the GDI. There were covert skirmishes between GDI and Nod, but up until the First Tiberium War, the two factions didn't have a war that would be worthy of a game campaign.

However, an interesting franchise would be a movie playing out the events between RA and TD, showing political and other underlying causes of the war, much as in Dune.

#6 Beowulf

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 08:25 PM

Then explain Kane in Red Alert.....

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#7 Shinigami

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:00 PM

Expanding on one of Blade's theories: Kane is a man who has been cursed to wander the Earth for all of eternity, never dying, unable to be killed. He has been here since long before the GDI and was most likely Nod's founder. Please remind me of what Kane did in RA. I haven't played it in a while, and I can't quite remember.

#8 Beowulf

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:08 PM

Kane kills the Soviet officer that assassinated Stalin. Then explain in FS, why Kane died..... :|

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#9 Deathblow Luc

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:14 PM

Did he?

Blade´s theory does make sense, but it moves C&C out of science fiction to theology. Its like mixing C&C´s story with Homeworld´s (Check that there are relics of progenitors, a leader who claims to be descendant of god, etc). The problem is that obviously Westwood didnt plan to make a secuel to RA2. When EA grabbed the business, they made a really bad storyline for a second part just to sell more. As the success wasnt sufficient, and in combination with their ambition, not only they destroyed Westwood in a lyrical way, but they also created Generals, another product which totally lacks a storyline, is more empty than every other C&C, but well, its 3D. And as 3D sells, it granted EA a new public. Yet most of real C&C fans, those who have been on from TD are dissapointed, since they are used to the ambient and quality from previous versions.

Im sorry, in RA2 the carriers overlap themselves, and in Generals a tank is THROUGH another one. I never saw that happen in RA1... ;)

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#10 Beowulf

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:17 PM

Yeah, they thought he died in Tib SUn but in FS I believe they find his body. Might need to play through it this weekend to find out.

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#11 Shinigami

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 09:32 PM

I'll buy that FS off of ya. ;)

Anyhow, I thought they never found the body. Maybe I'm thinking of TS, not FS. Westwood never meant for RA2 to come out. It was EA who produced it, I believe. Regardless of the producer, despite the success and fun of RA2, its expansion, and many mods thereof, the whole concept of RA2 fucked the entire C&C timeline hard. Then, they tried to rectify the FUBAR situation with a BS storyline. :cry:

#12 Allied General

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Posted 16 January 2004 - 09:39 AM

Kane was killed in TS by McNeil with a giant pike However they left the body to burn in his temple of whatever.

If we assume the messed up CNC storyline is Red Alert, Red Alert Counterstrike & Aftermath, Red Alert 2, Tiberian Dawn, Tiberian Sun, Fire Storm then the plot works.

Now in Firestorm Kane is alive but he is sleeping when you finish the Nod campagin in FS (GDI & Nod have a truce to finish off Cabal) you see Cabal Head and Kane in a test tube thing in a "unknown" location. I also perfer Firestorm as you are the hero instead of "being" McNeil ;)

Also RA2 is cheesy but I liked the humour, CNC was always too "serious" it was starting to become nooby like TS elists.

Also bear in mine The Tiberian Tide Concept was borne when RA2 had not been announced..
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#13 Tesla

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 04:09 PM

If Red Alert 3 someday arrives,I would say the best solution for Allied win is to destroy Soviet Union and make it Russia,because in Tiberian Dawn it's Russia not Soviet Union.BTW I think if Red Alert 3 is announced it will take place couple years after Yr

#14 Tom

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 08:02 PM

I think if Red Alert 3 is announced it will take place couple years after Yr


Well done....

#15 Deathblow Luc

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 08:59 PM

LMAO!

Actually, let RA alone. The storyline is too screwed already. Id rather see a well worked TT, with a solid storyline (EA, hire me), and a good quality product that isnt a Generals clone. No matter if on 3D or not, but keeping the CNC Style sidebar, and not the blizzardish PoS Generals has...

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#16 Ash

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 11:50 AM

Someone just give TA corporate funding and a hundred-strong programming team and you'd be set! :)

Ever consider the idea that Kane has been cloned?

Yes I know Nadya mentions the Brotherhood, and it makes sense because it's said that the Brotherhood has existed for thousands of years under various guises. It's not until TD that the Brotherhood begins to go on fighting.

During the RA1 war, the Allies form a Global Defence Pact (sound familiar?) as they rally together to defeat the Soviet invaders. It may of taken a few decades following the formation of the UN to really take off, but this was the beginning of the GDI forces.

Nod existed during the RA1 war. It may have provided funding. And therefore I just reckon Kane has been cloned (RA2 has cloning vats. who's to say they weren't invented just a bit before then? Also, at the end of FS those bodies floating around look strangely like Kane. I reckon that that's a gene tank.). They say "Kane lives in death." Perhaps that's because it takes a little while to germinate the clone?

It could also explain why there be only one of him at a time. he would have learned from Yuri's mistake of having an army of clones (Surely that would have caused innumerable tactical disagreements. Just think: If you met an exact physical and mental replica of yourself, you'd probably end up hating, loathing, despising and arguing with him/her).

Or you can just totally discount Yuri from the equation and count Kane as smart enough to realise that there can, and should, only be one Kane.



Someone'll find fault in my logic, but hey. It's worth a small degree of credibility, surely. 8)

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#17 Lord of the Guns

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 07:34 PM

If Red Alert 3 someday arrives,I would say the best solution for Allied win is to destroy Soviet Union and make it Russia,because in Tiberian Dawn it's Russia not Soviet Union.BTW I think if Red Alert 3 is announced it will take place couple years after Yr


1. It may take one or two decades
2. Yes! TD Russia is the Democracy country. I think IF RA3 the "bridges" between RA series and Tiberian series... then...
2.1 Allies have to OVERTHROW Communist Government and establish the demoracy govt. by INCITING Revolt....Either to lend Muslim hands. or Nationalist one.... May be, the Monarchis will help allies.
2.2 Soviet has suffered loss in many wars. either war against ALLIES. or to war to defend her "Colony". or.... wars against Corrupted third echelon (just like late 70 - 80s era James Bond Movie)
2.3 In that time.... nod remains secret. And works undercover

#18 Ash

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 09:18 AM

I don't think there will ever BE an RA3. After all, they messed up the storyline with YR.

If you ask me, RA2 is NOT connected to RA1 in ANY WAY. I mean, what the hell? Laser guns, men that can erase people from existence and vehicles that can make themselves look like trees o_0 Somehow that sorta detracts from the CnC theme...

Ah well.


Oh, and wb, LOTG. :) ;) ;)

#19 Daz

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 11:08 AM

Erm, didn't RA2 follow on from the Allied RA1 campaign (they had time to make the crazy tech if they already had chronospheres etc) and the Tib games carried on from the RA1 Soviet campaign so it's actually two storylines?
That's my understanding anyway.

#20 Tesla

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 02:05 PM

RA 1 1938(correct me if I'm wrong)and Red Alert 2 1979 1979-1938=41,so allies have 41 years to do their Cronostuff,and lasers were builded by Einstein during Red Alert 2(Allied mission where you had to defend Pentagon




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