34 replies to this topic

[dancam]

For a very long time, we've had no clear vision of this network's future and its purpose. Different people have had different plans and different ways to make them reality. We now seek to clearly state our role and our plans for the future, so that from now on, truly everyone works towards a common goal.

When Revora was first founded it was on the basis of a creative network, where we'd encourage not only mod and game related stuff, but also a wide range of creative aspects, including art and blogs among other things. Over time, it can be argued that this particular area hasn't really taken off, whilst gaming related areas such as T3A and CNC Guild continue to do well. As such, it has been suggested that we move to a clearer focus on gaming, or perhaps even as specific as modding itself.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

[Detail]

When founding Revora, i took a lot of inspiration from FedNET (federationstudios.net). FedNET was a host and forum for modding projects, that used a network bar.

I felt i could make my version cover everything, by progressing in ever increasing circles, by this i mean; start with modding (as it's the area i knew at the time), then games dev, game art, general art, art videos, general videos, music. Once becoming good in 1 field, increasing the range of the network to start covering a slimier field. This pattern of growth uses the talents gained from 1 field to quickly boost the growth of the next.
Until (inter)world domination.

Back when Revora was born, this was possible. But i don't think it is anymore, as you'd need a leader of steal to control such a monster.

So, stick to what you know; games modding. Make the ultimate game modification, mapping and customisation network. Then refine and perfect it.

Edited by D, 25 January 2009 - 12:17 AM.

[Rawlo]

hmm I've been looking through the recent spate of topics on the fact that the forums need to change or expand and the stop stagnating whatever termanology you want to use. I've had an idea that may or may not be possible or practical but I think I might run it by you all. keep in mind that this is the bones of an idea, it's not well thought out or filled in.

in any case here goes:

my idea centralizes arround expanding revoras role and making it more structured. the expansion part of it would see it become a three pronged network, focussing on a creativity section, a games section, and a modding section.

the reason for this is that from my veiw revora main body is modding it revolves arround both the lotr and the cnc modding communities, now I don't know about the lotr community but I know the cnc community is dying, slowly but it's definately dying, I beleive it would be possible to revive it but it would require some rather extensive work (something I also have ideas on but I won't go into detail here, pm me if your interested in discussing it). my point here is that with it's heart dying revora isn't going to be expanding anywhere.

now what I propose is making the cnc, the lotr, and all the other modding related subforums, grouping them together and putting them under the modding banner rather then making them seperate devisions, merge them to some degree, then start working on solidifying them. doing things such as getting someone to do basically what banshee does on his website, posting news of whats interesting and happening, across all parts of the modding community here. maybe several people doing that. so that it's not a mish mashed random jumble you'll currently find as the news from sites such as cnc guild. which no-one that I know of takes any notice of because it has no structure at all. So basically it would need it's own site, which would need to be clean, look proffessional and be well designed and executed.

this would also be the area where modding and the general creation of anything related to modding and the creation of games could be discussed such as mods, mod news, tutorial, modelling etc.


the next section or devision of revora would be the games devision, this would be based arround discussion of actual games rather then modding. and would include things such as game and possibly higher end/finished mod reveiws, and possibly preveiws. this could be either staff or member written but would need to have staff to filter through the reveiws to make sure that those which become 'official' for revora are high quality. it might be best to have one or several staff speficially tasked for the review writing rather then having members though, it's something that needs thinking about there.

this again would require a site, but the news feed would probebly be more akin to a simple listing of what new reveiws have bean written, and generally whats happening in the creation of more popular games.

the forums for this devision would be among other things, where reviews could be submitted and where up coming and recently released games can be discussed, compared etc.


the last devision would be the creative devision which would require the most focus, because revora is so centralized arround gaming. my idea here was to make something far more freindly to artists, in regards to uploading and displaying work. a problem which I think is what is killing ou current creative community. who want to take part in the creative sectors of revora could sign up for a 'display page' something akin to an art blog you'd find on either artision or devient art, where visual art or written peices etc could be submitted via a form that asks for a general discription and a name and then displays it on an automatically generated but customizable art blog for each indivitual. the other thing is that the central website would require a person doing a similar job to the news poster in the modding community, sifting through the material thats submitted, and then posting news articles about the latest stuff, or the higher quality new stuff, things like that. the site would need to be quite attractive though to make people want to look at it.

the forums of course would be for discussing the creative techniques or recent works of art, as well as tutorials on different techniques etc.

and before you hit this, being a new creative community is no bad thing, some of the more entrenched ones can be very hostile places, one reason I never became a part of devient art.

on that topic, we also need to work hard on not just the actual structure of the community but also the PR which for here is terrible, we need to get someone who's approachable and active to help introduce people to the communities, aswell as spreading the word to the rest of the net. someting we badly lack here.

as I said this idea isn't completely formed or well thought out at this stage, it doesn't cover the RP or the Open discussion or the thriving political discussion sections of the community ut I think with work it could go a long way to reviving revora.

Hmm so thats pretty much everything, I'm sorry it was so long but it was kinda hard to condence it any further. if your interested in discussing the idea with me, me msn address is easy to find in my profile, or you can pm me.

cheers, Rawlo

[Banshee]

Gaming coverage doesn't work with Revora at all. Modding does. This network is full of casual players and modders, mainly because it started as the merge of two modding networks.

I see Revora as some kind of brand that catches all creativity things. Creativity in this case, it the creation of content related to a specific subject covered by each division. So, coverage of existing products, such as game coverage that some people are suggesting is not something appropriate for the network in my opinion. Also, the lifecycle of these products are quick, so if you want a divison to last longer, it needs to cover a whole franchise like what CnC Guild originally did before CNC3.Net and CnCRA3.Net.

So, Revora would be mainly a place where we host our stuff. If there is a group of interested people on a specific subject willing to create content based on it, let them make a division about it.

However, the network would provide:
-> a proper set of services to make hosting easier and more confortable.
-> a confortable environment with a public interested to discuss its hosted projects.
-> internal promotion of its hosted projects

[Phil]

I see Revora as some kind of brand that catches all creativity things. Creativity in this case, it the creation of content related to a specific subject covered by each division. So, coverage of existing products, such as game coverage that some people are suggesting is not something appropriate for the network in my opinion. Also, the lifecycle of these products are quick, so if you want a divison to last longer, it needs to cover a whole franchise like what CnC Guild originally did before CNC3.Net and CnCRA3.Net.

The problem here is that you can hardly advertise and focus on "creativity".
As I've said to everyone I've talked to about this, in my opinion we need to find niches and exploit them. Modding and mod hosting is such a niche and we could easily promote that more (à la "Revora, the home of modding"). 3D and 2D art in general are topics that are already very well covered by networks and communities multiple times the size of Revora. I don't mind having sections for that kind of creativity or even hosting such projects. It's just that we should not waste our main focus on it because we cannot successfully compete with others in that area.
Personally, I think we should really focus mainly on modding, with a few carefully selected other topics as an addition. For example, forum-based RPGs could be one.

We need to make Revora more of a brand and promote it. But you cannot start a brand that covers a thousand things in the internet.

However, the network would provide:
-> a proper set of services to make hosting easier and more confortable.
-> a confortable environment with a public interested to discuss its hosted projects.
-> internal promotion of its hosted projects

I agree completely with that.

[ambershee]

DLoTS is pretty much on the buck. You need to pick your fights, and stick with them. Find your niche(s) and concentrate on providing the best possible service to fit that niche, rather than providing a scattered assortment of uselessness that doesn't really benefit, or attract anyone.

[Banshee]

That's what the divisions were made for, Ambershee. And what he said was quickly said in the paragraph I wrote after the one he quoted.

[Phil]

Huh? I thought I said something totally different...
The way I understood you, we basically just host whatever we feel like without focusing on anything specifically, under the motto of creativity on the whole.
I said we should get away from the catch-all strategy and try to focus on only two or three main areas (mainly modding and possibly two other things) because it's easier to promote and expand.

I don't plan to abandon the division model, but if we look at it realistically, we have only ever had two really successful divisons (the Guild and T3A), which both happen to focus on modding. Of course I value the other divisions/sections we have (had), but the situation seems pretty clear in my opinion.

[dancam]

Agreed that we should focus on a niche rather than general stuff.

The question is, how we approach the remaining creativity areas at Revora..

[Detail]

Agreed that we should focus on a niche rather than general stuff.

The question is, how we approach the remaining creativity areas at Revora..

Support them, just don't advertise them for the moment.

Windows XP is still supported by Microsoft, but they advertise Vista.

[ambershee]

Actually, Vista has been dropped completely, and is to be no longer supported by the end of the year, as Windows 7 is rolling in.

But that's not the point XD

[Banshee]

Huh? I thought I said something totally different...
The way I understood you, we basically just host whatever we feel like without focusing on anything specifically, under the motto of creativity on the whole.
I said we should get away from the catch-all strategy and try to focus on only two or three main areas (mainly modding and possibly two other things) because it's easier to promote and expand.

I don't plan to abandon the division model, but if we look at it realistically, we have only ever had two really successful divisons (the Guild and T3A), which both happen to focus on modding. Of course I value the other divisions/sections we have (had), but the situation seems pretty clear in my opinion.

Then what you said is really different, because I still think that the catch-all strategy works better.

What I said was to focus on what we really have people interested to focus on. We shouldn't expand into different game franchises because we cover games. We should cover it if we really have people interested to do it: both staff and visitors. If we have people interested on it, these people can be instructed to promote their site around the covered game franchise.


What I had in mind is to create a subforum here at Feedback and Suggestions where people could discuss what they want Revora to cover next and if they are willing to make it happen. Then, the expansion of the network becomes more community driven...

[Detail]

What I said was to focus on what we really have people interested to focus on. We should cover it if we really have people interested to do it: both staff and visitors.

That's ever-increasing circles, like i said up top

I think this has 2 flaws:

- Advertising the system.
How are people going to know Revora will build them a site that covers a game, if they are willing to make content? It's quite a tricky thing to advertise and explain.

- Too Late.
By the time Revora begins covering a new game, there will already be plenty of other sites covering it. So Revora would then most likely just cover the modding side of it.
If it's a totally new area, lets say 3D animation (which we might have some peeps interested in, from making models for mods), we're already far behind other sites.

These are the reasons why i could not make my original ever-increasing circles idea work for Revora.
Revora should refine what it has now.

[Banshee]

I think this has 2 flaws:

- Advertising the system.
How are people going to know Revora will build them a site that covers a game, if they are willing to make content? It's quite a tricky thing to advertise and explain.

Build a site about content creation related to the game they want to cover. Advertising is very simple. First, you need to study the 'competition'. Then, you affiliate with them and try to find channels to contact them. Then, you inform them about the latest news on Revora community and ask them to post news about it. They win with activity and Revora wins with promotion. One person can do that job in a easy way.

- Too Late.
By the time Revora begins covering a new game, there will already be plenty of other sites covering it. So Revora would then most likely just cover the modding side of it.
If it's a totally new area, lets say 3D animation (which we might have some peeps interested in, from making models for mods), we're already far behind other sites.

Technology, originality, content and public may overcome time. If we have a good technology (framework) behind it, some content and a motivated division, the division can grow, as long as it is covering a topic that interests many people. Public comes as consequence. Both CnC Guild and Origin Network started to cover Red Alert 2 late, after the release of Renegade and Generals. And today Revora still have the biggest Red Alert 2 modding community in the web.

[Detail]

I think this has 2 flaws:

- Advertising the system.
How are people going to know Revora will build them a site that covers a game, if they are willing to make content? It's quite a tricky thing to advertise and explain.

Build a site about content creation related to the game they want to cover. Advertising is very simple. First, you need to study the 'competition'. Then, you affiliate with them and try to find channels to contact them. Then, you inform them about the latest news on Revora community and ask them to post news about it. They win with activity and Revora wins with promotion. One person can do that job in a easy way.

I mean the advertising of "revora wants you to build and run a division site around a subject popular to revoraians", not the advertising of "a division site".

Maybe you mean the same thing and want to build an empty site for every subject that has the smallest interest with Revorians, then advertise that staff is needed for that site.

So Revora would then most likely just cover the modding side of it.

And today Revora still have the biggest Red Alert 2 modding community in the web.

Yes, so lets focus just on modding.

[Phil]

So it would be modding (possibly including map packs, custom mod tools, etc.) and what else? Or should we actually focus on modding only?

[Detail]

Think of it as "Revora - free game expansion"; anything that can extend the play time of a game:
- mods
- maps
and, anything that can help to make those:
- tutorials
- tools
- pre-fabs files (artwork, models, sounds)

[Banshee]

D... we also have a Forum RPG division (RPG Frontier), we host indie games and a politics blog division (Games Nations Play)...

Total focus on modding kinda breaks the network we have so far. And it doesn't make much of a difference. Revora.net will still be generic and what will really focus into anything are the existing divisions.

[OmegaBolt]

Well then maybe it makes sense to unofficially split Revora. Like Revora is the title and then have "Revora - centre of modding" (Or whatever) which would basically be a name for advertising purposes, like advertising the divisions individually while technically keeping them part of the Revora network.

[Detail]

D... we also have a Forum RPG division (RPG Frontier), we host indie games and a politics blog division (Games Nations Play)...
Total focus on modding kinda breaks the network we have so far.

If you make good arguments like that too often the Revora management will not try to make Revora better.

It's like this: The current Leaders can't make hard decisions or go against public opinion.
By making a good argument, you're giving the Leaders a valid 2nd option (1st being to focus on modding). If these leaders have 2 options to pick from, it'll overwhelm them, and they will pick nothing (it's a psychology thing, give someone 2 hard options and the weak don't pick either).


Things like the Forum RPG and GNP will not be removed, they just wont be given big links from the main Revora modding hub.

Come Banshee, join me and argue for focus on modding, it'll work out best for Revora.