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C&C Divisions Reform


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#41 Banshee

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:07 PM

Share the database with different skins and different menu options (which would be part of different skins with a little php code behind it) would still make CnC3.Net unique in some way and look to be 'within the Guild'.
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#42 Phil

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 03:41 PM

Okay, to break it down to the facts once again:

- A "skin" is just a custom template in 2play's system, which includes HTML and CSS
- no matter if we use a single domain, multiple domains or multiple subdomains, the system will use "skins"
- using a single domain with a skin changer is the easiest to code and most convenient for the users
- multiple subdomains are possible, but make the code less flexible and don't offer any added value
- multiple domains are just a hassle technically

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#43 Nighthawk

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 04:41 PM

From what I've read here, I'm not going to pretend to understand most of the technical wizardry behind it, but I'd have to say Phil's solution with the single domain sounds better, if only because it's more convenient to the end user. And the end user, I believe, is the one with the most valuable opinion.

If it is possible to alter the appearance beyond simple aesthetics for each skin, i.e. different menu options etc, as Banshee suggested, then I don't see how either CNC3.net or CNCRA3.net are losing their look and feel. The same layout could then be retained.
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#44 Phil

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:45 PM

Yeah like I said, custom skin means custom markup, so we can easily keep the dropdown menu for the CNC3.net appearance (actually it will look exactly like cnc3.net does now because I'm not changing that template).

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#45 Detail

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 11:33 PM

1. It's impossible to have two completely different domains (like cnc3.net and cncguild.net) share sessions. Their cookies won't be shared. This is a client-side thing we have no influence on.

Google gets past it with a frame. You goto Service.com that has a frame to Goggle.com, the frame sends info to the Service.com and logs you in.

More important a question is: Why are you logging in?
It seems a bit useless to login to a static site.


How about this:
- You have a backstage site: Revora.com/content which all your content writers login to and make content. After writing the content they pick which of Revora's game sites they wont it to display on.
- The game site connects to the content database and pulls all info/pages for the related game (oh hell yes, many sites can use 1 db, it's not rocket science).


As for 1 site that covers many games: Use /folders to pick which games content to see. Like cncguild.net/red-alert-3 would use the RA3 skin and show only RA3 pages. A /folder will rank much higher in Google than a sub.domain will. Top of the navigation is a list of the games the site covers, clicking it refines the links and pages to the game.


I continue to believe that anything is possible (even with coding), it just takes time :p

Edited by Detail, 26 March 2009 - 11:36 PM.


#46 Banshee

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 12:44 AM

Have you ever been to cnc3.net, the3rdage.net or petrolution.net?

Login is used to post articles, post comments, post files, rate content, among other things. Revora.net is a static site. CnC Guild is currently a static site. But one of the main objectives of this reform is to make it as dynamic as The 3rd Age is.


And the iframe idea is excellent, D.
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#47 Hostile

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:52 AM

Yeah, I've been thinking. This cnc division reform has been too focused on just one place. cnc3.net. It's time to think much larger about how the Guild should be set up, it's function, and it's site layout.

So I've decided to simply keep cnc3.net as is. In it's current form, in it's current ftp location, as well as db. I'm not comfortable merging (being absorbed) at this current time.

Get some of the old sites up using the new article system and MAYBE we'll see. At this time, I won't be merging cnc3.net to Guild. Besides moving the forums to the Guild section. That's all for now until further notice. Thanks...

#48 Bart

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:29 AM

Well you could psychologically merge it into the guild at least. By that I mean:
- Move over the forums (which you're doing)
- Have cnc3 stay where it is, physically.
- Add some kind of image or notice to the site (e.g. in the header) saying "Part of the C&C Guild" (with link).
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#49 Detail

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:31 AM

Login is used to post articles, post comments, post files, rate content, among other things.

All of that can be done without a login :evgr:

Why not use the network bar to hold login info? They had implemented a beta version on FedNET (which Revora is a clone of) back 4 years ago. With today's tech it should be easy.

Edited by Detail, 27 March 2009 - 11:31 AM.


#50 Bart

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 11:37 AM

All of that can be done without a login

No. Why could it? Have you seen those sites? If not, better check them out before you say things :)
If yes, I don't see how you can say this :evgr:

Why not use the network bar to hold login info? They had implemented a beta version on FedNET (which Revora is a clone of) back 4 years ago. With today's tech it should be easy.

Aside from there being no such thing as "holding login info" the network bar is just a client-side Javascript. It can't do anything server-side.
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#51 Detail

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:22 PM

Login is used to post articles, post comments, post files, rate content

You can post an article as a guest.
You can post a comment as a guest.
You can post a file as a guest.
You can rate content as a guest.
Rocket science :evgr:

Even if a user is logged in, when he submits content it's going to be moderated anyway. Might as well let guests submit content and moderate that too.


The network bar i made as a <?php include. If you're now only including the Javascript, you have failed.

#52 Nighthawk

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 06:02 PM

Yeah, I've been thinking. This cnc division reform has been too focused on just one place. cnc3.net. It's time to think much larger about how the Guild should be set up, it's function, and it's site layout.

The discussion has been focused on CNC3.net because that is what people have raised issues about. Had people started questioning about the Guild site, or CNCRA3.net, we would have focused on them in exactly the same way. Also, the various methods for incorporating the three sites described previously, I believe, only use CNC3.net as an example because you are the one asking about it. The same would be applied to both the Guild and CNCRA3.net.

So I've decided to simply keep cnc3.net as is. In it's current form, in it's current ftp location, as well as db. I'm not comfortable merging (being absorbed) at this current time.

If I remember correctly, the merger was already agreed upon quite a while back, hence this whole public announcement in the first place. What's the point in making a unified C&C division with just the Guild and CNCRA3.net and having CNC3.net separate? Instead of combining the community, it just fractures it.
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#53 Bart

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 09:47 PM

You can post an article as a guest.

Binding articles to users has so many benefits, this is just no. To name a few:
- A user's contributions are measured, for example to earn more file storage space.
- You can find items by a specific user, because you know they're good.
- Authors get proper recognition for their work.

You can post a comment as a guest.

That is true.

You can post a file as a guest.

Excuse me, do you want Revora to become the place for warez and viruses, with no way to punish those who upload them?

You can rate content as a guest.

Without required logging in, there's absolutely no way to see if somebody rates content twice, thus you get a lot more cheating.

Rocket science

It's not rocket science no, but things also aren't that simple most of the time.

The network bar i made as a <?php include. If you're now only including the Javascript, you have failed.

On the contrary. A Javascript include is much more portable and way better for performance (due to client-side caching). You can program Javascript such that it will always work. With PHP, this is simply not possible. Every PHP site is different, which different locations to output the bar's HTML, etc. If you include authentication code on top of that, it'll become as portable as a skyscraper.
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#54 Detail

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:16 AM

it'll become as portable as a skyscraper.

Web servers are ment to be spanked.

#55 Bart

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:58 AM

Eh...that has absolutely nothing to do with it? I'm just saying it'll be impossible to include the network bar in every site, as easily as that's done now.

No, authentication does not belong there.
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#56 Detail

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:18 PM

impossible

You're very negative. You like to remove options, but you don't add any.


Though, I suppose i already solved the problem with the mention of Google's iFrame login system.

#57 Bart

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Posted 28 March 2009 - 12:28 PM

I'm not negative, I'm realistic :xcahik_: I do know what I'm talking about
Sure, it's never 100% impossible, but "impossible" also means "very hard, a lot of work, not nearly worth the benefits".

We're planning on a new central login system, working similar to OpenID. We'll look into Google's method when we get to it. :good:
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#58 Hostile

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 02:19 AM

Yeah, I've been thinking. This cnc division reform has been too focused on just one place. cnc3.net. It's time to think much larger about how the Guild should be set up, it's function, and it's site layout.

The discussion has been focused on CNC3.net because that is what people have raised issues about. Had people started questioning about the Guild site, or CNCRA3.net, we would have focused on them in exactly the same way. Also, the various methods for incorporating the three sites described previously, I believe, only use CNC3.net as an example because you are the one asking about it. The same would be applied to both the Guild and CNCRA3.net.

So I've decided to simply keep cnc3.net as is. In it's current form, in it's current ftp location, as well as db. I'm not comfortable merging (being absorbed) at this current time.

If I remember correctly, the merger was already agreed upon quite a while back, hence this whole public announcement in the first place. What's the point in making a unified C&C division with just the Guild and CNCRA3.net and having CNC3.net separate? Instead of combining the community, it just fractures it.

I agree to move the cnc3.net forums into the Guild. No disagreement there. There are ALOT more sites than just those three. A lot of them have tutorials as well. More than enough to keep people busy for months converting those tutorials over. CNC3.net still has a comfortable lifespan on it's own for some time. No need to confuse users by merging the backdoor stuff just yet.

Focus on the Guild...

#59 Nighthawk

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Posted 29 March 2009 - 11:20 AM

The only other two sites I can think of aside from the big three that would be affected by this merger would be SDI and possibly GenDev, and their article content could basically be put into the Guild site anyway. YR Argentina and Tiberian Graveyards are download sites, so I don't think they would have an awful lot of need for revamping. The few tutorials on either site could again be merged into the Guild.
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