65 replies to this topic

[Gfire]

No, but it's fairly time consuming and I realized the other walls can have the same result if you make the lighting right. Erebor would probably be better, anyway, because of all the mining tracks and stuff.

[Retharias]

Yeah, its fine. I've tried making erebor maps before. The moria map shouldn't be much different.

Edit: And you're right about the mining tracks and all that.

Edited by Rokqua Shadowkin, 15 March 2009 - 12:09 AM.

[Retharias]

Gfire, here's a screen of Moria's general layout. Player one will get the throne room, and Player two will get Balin's Tomb, and Player three will get Kazag'Dum (If I figure out how to make that)

Unfortunately, to make it realistic, I'm gonna need some damaged erebor walls, so could you simply reskin the damaged Blue Mountain walls to make them look like erebor? I don't think it would be too hard, or take as long as a full reskinning.

But any ideas on how i'm gonna make a block of terrain look like a half-shattered bridge? Or two?

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[Gfire]

Why do you need damaged walls?

I suppose you should make most of the map the large cavern of Dwarrow-Delf (sp?) with a bunch of pillars in it, and Balin's tomb would be coming out on the side of it. Then the throne room would probably be across the cavern from there, where the fellowship wouldn't have seen it. There should also be a separate entrance to the main room that just leads off the map or something, which would be on one of the other walls (so that when you enter by it, the tomb would be on the right), where the fellowship came from. To get to the bridge they had to go through Balin's tomb and go through a door on the other side, then walk for another day or two.

[Retharias]

Why do you need damaged walls?

Just think for a second. Goblins AND a balrog in a Moria. Do you think the dwarves would have built Moria to withstand the ravages of hundreds upon thousands of vengeful goblins AND a half-crazed balrog? Especially since they didn't even know what a balrog was at the time?

As for the rest... Yeah, I'll leave out Kazag'Dum... even though that's my favorite place in all of Moria... And I thought that the Darrow-Delf WAS the throne room. Was I wrong about that? Even if I was, though, Darrow-Delf would make a great battlefield zone. LOTS of room.

And the current size for the Darrow-Delf is... Fifteen hordes wide at its widest point and and twenty-four hordes long at its longest point.

Edited by Rokqua Shadowkin, 15 March 2009 - 10:21 PM.

[Gfire]

Well, Dwarrow-Delf was the whole city. The throne might have just been in the main cavern, I don't know.

Oh, pre-damaged walls. I though you meant damagable walls. Unfortunately, I realized the Blue Mountains walls use different models than the Erebor Walls, so it can't just be a reskin, but a complete remodel, which I'm not able to do. Can you do it with just some rubble and rock objects?

[Retharias]

Yeah, I think I'll be able to do that. I've repositioned the throne room, added Balin's Tomb, redid the lighting, and added the columns in the Dwarrow-Delf. Here's a couple screenshots:

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[Gfire]

Wow, looks great. Try to keep is a accurate in layout to the books as possible. For instance, I think Balin's Tomb was on the right wall from where the fellowship came in: which would probably have to be over. And the exit door in the tomb rood was in the back, across from the entrance, at least in the movie. Just a few things from my memory that might be useful.

I suppose you'll be adding some mine shafts to the dead-end rooms so they aren't so... dead-endish.

So who will control the gates? Actually, the Balin's Tomb gate should probably be open and broken, as if the cave-troll busted through it.

Try looking at some pics and reading the section in the book for referance, too.

The lighting could also be a little darker, but it's hard to tell. It might look fine once the textures are on.

Edit: Oh, another thing. Make sure the pillar formations are accurate. I don't remember if there was an offset, or anything.

Edited by Gfire, 16 March 2009 - 02:46 AM.

[Retharias]

I don't think Tolkien ever mentioned the way the pillars were arranged, so that doesn't really matter, as long as there's enough of them. The pre-damaged walls, however, are gonna be difficult, especially as I intend to make it so that the goblins had blasted their way into the throne room from a side tunnel. Also, the mines will be made as a simple valley between two rock walls; not at all like the decorated walls of the rest of moria. That way, we can realisticaly expand moria to the very edges of the map, though this is a very... compact version of Moria. If you want, I can treat Moria like Mordor, and split the city into different maps. (though I would rather keep the small version. I have the feeling that Moria is about the size of Mordor, or Barad'Dur, if not even larger.)

Edited by Rokqua Shadowkin, 16 March 2009 - 03:28 AM.

[Retharias]

I have three new screenshot for the Moria map:

1. Balin's Tomb model--this is actully just a big pile of tomb columns.

2. Throne Room--I've made some progress on the throne room. It now has some textures, a lot of columns, and a carpeted road leading to the throne.

3. Breach in throne room wall--I used terrain-shaping and mordor rocks to create the illusion of a hole connecting the throne room to a side corridor.

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Edited by Rokqua Shadowkin, 16 March 2009 - 05:00 PM.

[Gfire]

If Tolkien didn't mention the pattern, go by the one in the movie .

Those look good. Maybe you should remove the rug, though, or make it look ripped up and rugged if you can, so it looks old and stuff.

[Retharias]

Would scorch marks and a bit of rubble do for the rug? And I'm going to add a second or third texture into the throne room to make the floor look damaged.

P.S: What was the pillar arrangement in the movies again?

Edit: And is it okay if I have a mine track cross diagonally over the main cavern? Sometimes I have to sacrifice accuracy for realism.

Edited by Rokqua Shadowkin, 17 March 2009 - 12:02 AM.

[Gfire]

Or you could try doing the rug completely from textures. I think there are some similar to that.

Try to keep in on the grayer side, rather than blue.

I don't remember the pillar arrangement from the movies, try looking at a pic.

About the tracks: there probably weren't any tracks inside the main room because that part was already finished, and the tracks would be in the mine areas.

[mike_]

The columns in the films were arranged in a gridlike formation - rigid lines. Not sure how many there were, but a LOT

[Retharias]

Thanks for the tip.

About the tracks. There might have been one length of track to port materials from one mine tunnel to one on the other side of the city.

[Gfire]

Yes, that's possible, but it might have been in a separate tunnel under the main floor, or go around the perimeter of the area.

This map might be best to be named Dwarrowdelf instead of Moria.

There would be a few problems with a bridge map. The bridge was only wide enough for one person, which would create extreme pathing problems. Also, some larger units such as Mumakil wouldn't be able to cross at all. It's unfortunate, because it would have been a very cool map.

I'm just brainstorming here, but it might be interesting to have a campaign level where you play as Gandalf against the Balrog through the whole battle: so you start on the bridge and then continue at the bottom of the casm all the way to the peak. It would be a very long boss battle, but if that's all the level is it might be interesting. I'm not really interested in doing a campaign yet, but I thought I'd get input on the idea to see if it is doable. To avoid weird mapping issues, the bridge part could probably just be at the end of the normal Moria level, and the next mission would start at the bottom of the casm.

There would probably have to be a few cutscenes in the middle to transition through the various zones of the map, and to avoid camera issues with extremely tall elevation.

[Retharias]

So, you want and endless stair map? I could probably do that, and make a movie in which gandalf and the balrog fall off the bridge, then start climbing the endless stair.

I could also make Durin's Tower a skirmish map, and making it very large.

[Gfire]

The problem is that the camera starts acting weird on maps taller than 300 or so, but it might be possible to work around that with the correct use of objects.

Don't start it yet, or anything. It was just an idea.

[Retharias]

Never mind about the skirmish version. The necesary size would be unrealistic for Durin's tower. With a campaign map, I can split the level into different identical parts, with small variations in the rocks and scorch marks, and in the events on that part of the stair. With the Durin's Tower, I could make that the final part of the level, where gandalf must kill the balrog, or he is thrown off the mountain and killed.

Afterwards, the Balrog flies back to Moria and kills everyone in the Fellowship, then takes the ring and overthrows Sauron, and rules Middle-Earth for a thousand years.

[Gfire]

Yeah, it wouldn't work for a skirmish map, but it would be a fun campaign map. I'll have a look at existing stair objects and stuff to see. The stairs from the Moria campaign level might work.