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#1 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:45 PM

My master, Sauron the Great, bids thee welcome,

I DID IT :p

...at least I did a few first steps to do it, I have now all 8 Nazguls buildable in the fortresses and I've moved Legolas from the Elves to the MotW in the WotR... I think it won't be difficult to add Gothmog and all the others, it will most probably be difficult for me to move Gimli from the Dwarves as he is a major hero for the WotR. Perhaps I could be able to make a clone.

I will now see how it works for the new SEE units. They work very well in the real time battles, I have absolutly no problem with playing and saving WotR (I've played for MotW, Mordor and Isengard, will have to try the other factions also to be sure)

Mouth of Sauron

Edited by Nazgûl, 06 October 2009 - 11:51 AM.


#2 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 01:26 AM

Ok, some progress... The Hero Army Leaders of Mordor in the SEE application for WotR are now the Whitch King, Mouth of Sauron and Gothmog ; Shagrat and the eight Nazguls are minor heroes recruitable from the fortress, all are now the SEE heroes with the modified abilities as they are for the skirmish games. I even managed to change the icons so the banners now do not show the fellbeasts anymore, but Mouth of Sauron and Gothmog :p ...

Let's see what I can do with the regular units

MoS

#3 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 11:22 AM

...other improvments :

the CONTROLBAR:LW_ToolTip no more says "Hero Army Leader" for all hero army leaders, I have now :

Aragorn : Isildur's Heir Army
Theoden : Rohan Army Leader
Faramir : Gondor Army Leader

Whitch King : Mordor Army Leader
Mouth of Sauron : Barad Dur Army Leader
Gothmog : Mordor Army Leader

Saruman : Isengard Leader
Sharku : Warg Riders Leader
Lurtz : Isengard Army Leader

in the elven army, Celeborn replaces Thranduil (becomes minor hero) : Lorien Army Leader
Elrond : Rivendell Army Leader
Haldir : Lorien Army Leader

The fellowship heroes are now "Fellowship Hero", the Rohan heroes are "Rohan Hero".

Boromir, Gandalf and Legolas may now join Aragorn's army, the Whitch King may command all eight Nazguls, Haldir would remain Hero Army Leader,... I also think about making Sauron recruitable Mordor hero with some 60 turns or so to be recruited (to be tested), and to remove the ring heroes from the battles... overrun the Mordor forces before he can find the ring, a simple thing. Galadriel refused to take the ring, I don't like the Dark Queen concept the game uses to balance Sauron for the good side. It's perhaps nice for the skirmish, but I don't think the good side should have any ring hero, it is against the sens of the story... they simply cannot use the ennemie's weapon as it would turn all it's power against them, that's the main point, isn't it, so let's try to eliminate it from the game.

Ok, now I will see the regular units finally...

MoS

#4 Mordor Slayer

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 11:01 PM

Wow, this is some great work! I'll let the other know to take a look at this.

Edited by Mordor Slayer, 14 March 2009 - 11:02 PM.

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#5 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 11:10 PM

any screen shots?

#6 ttandchotmail

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:14 AM

G'day Mouth of Sauron

Good going mate :) Like many people over here the internet is still an expensive connection to have. So many people linked up computers and played wotr together over lan lines. Lots of fun :D

But the reason I stopped playing wotr was because of some game crashing bugs that upon selecting a few particular maps to battle on the entire game kept crashing. I'm not sure if it will on your computer ( I hope not ) But keep it in mind as you play. Sorry I can't remember which maps they were but I'm sure it was 3 or 4 maps that did it.
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#7 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:21 AM

Actually, we can't make screentshots of BFME in Barad-dur, but if you tell me how to make one, I may post dozens of screenshots :)

I have changed the "Unit type:" for the heroes in WotR again a bit, so now the line does not say "Unit type", but :

Aragorn : Isildur's Heir
Elrond : Lord of Rivendell
Gothmog : Lieutenant of Minas Morgul
Faramir : Captain of Gondor
etc... it's better I think then the generic "Unit type: Hero Army Leader" or "...Hero"

Some more serious improvements :

I am able to move any unit to the strategic map, however I've also encountered some problems with the buttons and icons that do not work allways properly (for example WOR_Mumakil... it worked better when I used the same button from the Mumakil Pan texture), due to these difficulties (it took me hours to try to find the correct buttons that would work, and even if I would sweare (on the precious) all coords and file names and refferences were correct, the image in the game simply was not o.k., either the button had no background, or the unit icon actually was the button image with the round sky background...), and also because I don't think anybody would build the very basic swordsman units in the strategic maps (I never did before, these are cannon fodder, cheap and relatively quick to build in any battle in any numbers), I removed them (except for the Uruk-Hai), and replaced them with the pikemen (the Lorien Warriors will replace the Lorien Swordsmen - that I think to remove completely as I hardly see any Elf Warrior with no bow... elves with just a sword, with no shield, who fight in close order, look quite strange, with the Lorien Warriors they are no more needed) ; in the current phase of my trials, the units buildable with the MotW and Mordor are the following :

Gondor Pikemen (1 turn)
Tower Guards (2 turns)
Gondor Archers (1 turn)
Ithilien Rangers (2 turns)
Gondor Knights (1 turn)
Rohirrim (2 turns)

Gimli, Legolas, Boromir, Gandalf, Merry, Pipin, Eomer, Eowyn; with Aragorn, Theoden and Faramir as army leaders ;
the other units work fine in the battles (in future the Yeoman Archers and Rohirrim Archers might be added if made), the first three heroes and the hobbits are recruited within one turn, the others within two; the reason is obvious I think - to collect them as soon as possible and see them participate at the War of the Ring)

---

Orc Archers (1 turn)
Haradim Archers (2 turns)
Corsairs of Umbar (2 turns)
Orc Pikemen (1 turn)
Easterlings (1 turn)
the three trolls as they were
and... Mumakil (4 turns)... I missed that one, now they will have the chance to become veteran units.

8 Nazguls and Shagrat (all 2 turns), and the Whitch King, Gothmog and Me as army leaders ; the other units are buildable during the battles (I will try to replace the Orc Archers with the Morannon, but there is the problem with the icon I was unable to sort out today, it is not serious, the unit may work, it simply is not very nice...)

In the same way I would do the other factions, the general idea is not to move the elite troops to the strategic map as they have build limits that I probably would not be able to make, and that I see as a good thing, so no black uruks or noldor warriors, etc., but definetly uruk scouts or the warg riders for the Goblins.

The heroes are ready for all factions (actually there are two Gimlis in the game now, I will check if I could make an active dwarven army without any hero; and I don't like Shelob as army leader, she should not fight - and "command" - in field battles and sieges, and she has nothing to do with the Goblin or Moria faction, in order to make the WotR as much close to the films as possible, I will probably remove her; on the other hand I will consider to add Frodo and Sam to the MotW)

It is great to have all of them in WotR, with Ugluk, all the Nazguls, all the same, no "fellbeast hero" as a sort of 1st class Nazgul...

Because I removed the basic infantry from the strategic map, I tried to reduce their build time values, but I don't think it was a good idea, in the first short battle I tested this I've been attacked very soon by single swordsmen battalions in short periods of time, I will use the SEE values again. I have made Mumakils a bit more expensive in command points, they had 100, I made them 120 to be equal to two basic hordes.

I am perhaps a bit hasty, but I think I started to understand the system of the files (a few years ago I made some mod work with the Star Wars, Empire at War, that had, it seems to me, a better system, easier to understand and mod). If anybody has any ideas or propositions, I'd be glad to read them. If anybody knows ho to change the map of Middle Earth for WotR, I think it is necessary to make it nice (BFME1 style, without the annoying team colours covering everything, without those ugly borders...). Those who are able to make maps, I think the WotR needs the Black Gate made as fortress (with possibility to close and open the gate), to make it at least as hard to take as the Helm Deep, and even harder... etc.

MoS

#8 ttandchotmail

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:33 AM

Good work mate :)
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#9 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:14 AM

I had my first CTD with SEE WotR today, at the Black Gate, taken by Faramir, I tried to move there the Witch King with 8 Nazguls and Mouth of Sauron with some Mumakils.

Actually, even in Barad-dur we now can make screenshots, it's not very difficult after all :)

wotr1.jpg

wotr2.jpg

What I have to do also is to make the new units upgradable on the strategic map.

MoS

#10 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 10:25 AM

Ok... :)

I think the Mumakil is probably the problem, there are no autoresolve values, I am not sure I will be able to make it working

MoS

#11 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:06 PM

Well, it should be possible. And the work is where i thought it would be: autoresolve. Will only take some time jiggling with the codes.
Good work. :)

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#12 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:48 PM

For the moment I gave him Attack Troll values for the autoresolve, at least it should not ctd now. I will see to the autoresolve tables later.

I also found where I did mistakes about the button images, with all the alpha codes, WOR buttons from the strategic images, I think I have it. I will possibly put back the swordsmen, and all the new orcs, even if I doubt anyone would recruit them to waste his command points. I also fixed the Shagrat's button that actually did not show correctly (no background).

And I returned to the 100 points for Mumakil.

Three more screenshots : the mumakils and the new units recieve upgrades correctly + MotW with Faramir and Elves with Celeborn...

wotr3.jpg

wotr4.jpg

wotr5.jpg

I'll be absent for a week, then I'll finish the work with the regular units, and see the autoresolve thing. I hope I will remember the way I did all this and not need to rediscover it :)

MoS

#13 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:23 PM

wotr6.jpg

Faramir's Army Leader icon...

What do you think about the following changes :

1) all heroes recruited in 1 turn, and some even put to the starting armies,

2) strenghten up the starting armies (a bit...), so that Faramir gets a few rengers, Aragorn leads the Fellowship and Theoden may reclaim Rohan within the first turns (supposed that MotW begin in Minas Tirith), having Eomer and a few rohirrim to defend it (and continue to Helm's Deep; that he will probably have to fight for with Isengard...), etc.

3) make the farms more effective, now they add 30 points of command limits, I would see them at 60 or even more.

4) change the power system if possible so that it does not depend from the territories, but from the number of battles faught... if possible... or make the power points gather much more quickly during the battles

5) the idea with Sauron... find a good number of turns that his recruitement should last...

6) would there be any way one player might dispose with two or three factions ? In that case the game would get another dimension...

MoS

#14 ttandchotmail

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 05:14 AM

G'day MoS

Great work mate :) And your ideas should make the wotr even better ;)
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#15 Arthadan

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 07:51 AM

You're doing an amazing work! With all that changes maybe WotR becomes an interesting game mode after all.

Keep the good work!!

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#16 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:10 AM

The Messenger of Mordor is back,

now with some elvish changes : Thranduil is back as army leader, Haldir is minor hero, Galadriel_SEE added, Lorien swordsmen are replaced by the Elven guards (actually named "Lórien Warriors") or Helms Deep veterans, with upgrades, etc., it seems it works, Frodo and Sam go with the MotW.

I will see what can I do with the Moria faction, and than I'll try to put in my Master.

All heroes are now buildable at 1 turn, but I think about changing it again... with the aim to make the heroes 'mortal', I will try to put all of them to the starting armies, remove the possibility to revive them from the fortress during the battle (if I can do that without affecting the skirmish mode...) and make their build times much longer on the strategic map... the point is not to need to kill Mouth of Sauron 16 times in the same battle.

MoS

#17 Sûlherokhh

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:16 AM

It's nice to see someone else working with a lot of the ideas i've also been carrying around with for quite some time. for WotR it is a very good idea to have heroes not revive. You can basically solve this by having a map.ini (for all WotR-maps) that adjusts either all the fortress commandsets or all the heroes' Body-Modules.

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#18 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 12:40 PM

Well, I will see what I can do, I am a beginner, I will see what map.ini are

In the meantime I've finished the basic improvements : Isengard has scout raiders, Moria has warg raiders, the starting armies are :

MotW

- Aragorn with Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, Pippin and Merry
- Theoden with Eomer and 2 battalions of Rohirrim
- Faramir with 2 battalions of Ithilien Rangers
- garrison army with 2 battalions of archers, 2 battalions of pikemen and 1 battalion of knights

Elves

- Celeborn with Galadriel, Haldir and 2 Lórien Warrior battalions (the Helms Deep veterans)
- Elrond with Arwen, Glorfindel and 2 Lancers battalions
- Thranduil and 2 Mirkwood Archer battalions
- garrison army with 4 Lórien archer battalions

Dwarves

- minor changes only, all three main armies come with 2 or 3 battalions, garrison army with 4... it's easy to change this if found to be too weak... the Dwarves miss heroes a lot ; the first other thing I will try is to remove Gimli, and still have 3 active armies, I think it should not be any problem

Mordor

- Witch King with 8 Nazguls... testing will show if this army is not toooooooo strong for the beginning
- Mouth of Sauron with 2 Easterling battalions
- Gothmog with Shagrat and 2 pikemen battalions
- garrison army with 2 archer battalions and 2 mountain trolls... I would try to put there the Grond, and disallow it's production during the battles, there would be just one for the entire war

Isengard

- Saruman with Wormtongue and 2 wildmen battalions
- Lurtz with Ugluk and 2 scout raider battalions
- Sharku with 2 warg raider battalions
- garrison army with 2 pikeman and 2 crossbow battalions

Moria

- minor changes only, similar to the dwarves

All SEE units put into the WotR map (gondor pikemen, elven guards, mordor pikemen, mumakil, isengard scout raiders and goblin warg raiders) seem to work properly with all upgrades; the only autoresolve problem seems to be the Mumakil that will need more strenght than the attack troll's one he has temporarily now.

wotr7.jpg

wotr8.jpg

Now I will change the buildtimes for the heroes, see if I can make them mortal (some of them), and I will try to make Sauron a recruitable hero for Mordor. I will start at 50 turns, and see what will happen.

MoS

#19 Guest_Mouth of Sauron_*

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:46 PM

:good:

the map.ini way to make the heroes mortal WORKS and it's EASY !!!

...and the Witch King's army really is deadly now ;)

this is what I propose and will test shortly :

1) no more hero revival during the WotR battles
2) new build times for the heroes (with all of them in the starting armies it is now their revive time for the WotR) :

- hobit size heroes, Gandalf and Nazguls (no, you cannot kill them, no) : 5 turns
- other heroes : 10 turns

I think the map.ini can limit building of structures and units on the concrete maps, right ? in that case I would propose and test the following :

1) haradrim units, including the corsairs, recruitable in Harad and nearest territories only
2) soldiers of Rhun... recruitable in the Rhun region only (and Mordor)

...that could possibly make the Mordor armies more orcish.

MoS

#20 Guest_Guest_Luke_*

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 03:15 PM

:good:

the map.ini way to make the heroes mortal WORKS and it's EASY !!!

...and the Witch King's army really is deadly now ;)

this is what I propose and will test shortly :

1) no more hero revival during the WotR battles
2) new build times for the heroes (with all of them in the starting armies it is now their revive time for the WotR) :

- hobit size heroes, Gandalf and Nazguls (no, you cannot kill them, no) : 5 turns
- other heroes : 10 turns

I think the map.ini can limit building of structures and units on the concrete maps, right ? in that case I would propose and test the following :

1) haradrim units, including the corsairs, recruitable in Harad and nearest territories only
2) soldiers of Rhun... recruitable in the Rhun region only (and Mordor)

...that could possibly make the Mordor armies more orcish.

MoS






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