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Yoda's Balance Thread


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#1 Devon

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:28 PM

Alright guys, this is where I'm going to keep track of everything I think about the balance of the game at the moment. Feel free to add your own suggestions and stuff, or to critique mine.

Also, in general, mhhs need a major nerf. Also decrease all building upgrade costs and time.

Gondor

Change the blacksmith to a 350 resource building, and take away the upgrade feature. Forged Blades at level 2, heavy armor at level 3. Upgrades also cost a bunch more but get price drops the more blacksmiths you have, like bfme1.

Imrahil is a joke. Fix him somehow.

Let Gandalf start at level 3?


Rohan

Increase the armory price to 1000.

Increase the number of farms needed for rohirrim discounts. Instead of 2-3-4-5 make it 2-4-6-8.

Make 3 hunters a permanent, one use summon. They start at level 3-5. When they die, no reviving.

Give the rohan heroes a purpose (ask scryer about this :grin:)

For god's sake, give ents a buff! A cave troll took one out.

I currently see no point in rohirrim archers.

When theoden dies, I'm not sure what exactly the buff is, but it should be like +150% damage. Make it affect all rohan units, not just cavalry.

Let Radagast start at level 3?


Elves

-no comments-


Dwarves

I'll leave out my big ideas so my mike won't eat me :xd:

Give hammer guardians the hammer model at level 1, make them slightly better (unupgraded) than they are now. Switch hammer upgrade with forged blades/hammers. Level 2 hall only.

Please decrease demolisher trample a little more. I know it's big, but two guys pushing shouldn't be able to run over armies with it.

I don't think guardians and axe-throwers can combo-horde.


Arnor

-no comments-


Mordor

Reduce pp from own guys gettin killed? Sad to have balrog when your enemy jut got his 10pp power.

Make witchking cost 3k and act like a normal nazgul, just a little stronger. He can be upgraded in his commandset with a 5k witch-king upgrade, that changes him into the current one.

Make trolls start melee please.

Remove snaga -.-


Isengard

Shield uruks...

Let saruman start at level 3?


Goblins


Again, melee trolls

Reduce pp from own unit dying again.

Remove call the horde.


MotE

Mumak pen discounted should be 1500.

Mumak charge level 2 only.

I really can't tell that the level 3 rhun barracks pikes are better than the level 1 pikes.


Angmar

Give all wights a MAJOR nerf.

Nerf Kharsh.

Edited by Yoda_, 03 May 2009 - 08:42 PM.

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#2 Florisz

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:34 PM

Wow...You want a discount for Rohirrem.... :grin:
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#3 Devon

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:39 PM

They already have a discount :grin:

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#4 Neth

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:39 PM

Yes :grin: Finally. The flood control timer stopped :xd:
Perfect ideas Yoda only a few things wrong.

Remove call the horde.

DO NOT DO THIS!!!
(For goblins at least)


Make witchking cost 3k and act like a normal nazgul, just a little stronger. He can be upgraded in his commandset with a 5k witch-king upgrade, that changes him into the current one.

5K !?!?! How about 3/3.5 K?

Edited by Nethelen Narcu, 03 May 2009 - 07:39 PM.

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#5 Devon

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:42 PM

Why not for goblins? :grin:


He costs 8k at the moment, so I think it's only fair.

Maybe 4k though for the second upgrade though :xd:

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#6 Dunedain Lord

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:45 PM

mumakil cheaper? hell, beating them would be a lot harder u know..........
i think, though, that the rohirrim build time should be decreased. it takes years for it to produce..
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#7 Rafv Nin IV

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:45 PM

Karsh does not need a nerf. He's meant to be a hero killer. If you focus fire with archers, he goes down quick enough.

In general, building upgrade costs and times should be reduced. For instance, it costs 1000 resources to upgrade a Dwarven Forge to level 3. It costs 1000 to buy 2 battlewagons, which upgrades the forge to level 3 and takes less time, plus you can recycle the battlewagons if you don't want them. The upgrade costs should be 300 for upgrade to level 2 and 500 to level 3, except if you don't get any new units/upgrades for leveling up the building, in which case it should only cost 300 to level 3.

Guardians can't combine with anything except guardians.

Mines and tunnels should have an "Evacuate All" button, like towers do.

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#8 Florisz

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 07:45 PM

Or 3k...
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#9 Devon

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 08:41 PM

Dunedain, that would make Mumakil more expensive...

I disagree with kharsh, the self heal is too much. He can kill entire walking by walking through them anyway at high levels.

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#10 Dunedain Lord

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:08 AM

Dunedain, that would make Mumakil more expensive...

I disagree with kharsh, the self heal is too much. He can kill entire walking by walking through them anyway at high levels.

sorry, i misread. I thought u said you would take the actually mumakil from 1800 to 1500. my apologies.
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#11 Scryer

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 01:41 AM

Yay, a long post by Yoda that mentions me :grin: . I feel a little famous; Here's my response to some of them:


Give the rohan heroes a purpose (ask scryer about this :xd:)


Just one that's been bugging me for a while ;) .

- Eowyn. Can we please make her a melee/mounted Lurtz equivalent? I've listed her new power set-lists before.... I can bring them out now.

- Hama: If someone could convince me that he has a unique purpose different from Gamling (besides the fact that he's melee/unmounted currently), then I will listen. Other than that, if Hama doesn't cover a purpose that the other Rohirrim heroes don't already cover, I vote on axing him.


I currently see no point in rohirrim archers.


Mounted or not mounted? The mounted Rohirrim archers I will argue for. When you have mounted melee riders, you need archers to keep up with them. Especially in a cavalry-based faction.

Other than that, maybe just stick to Yeomen Spearthrowers. But even that's arguable.


When theoden dies, I'm not sure what exactly the buff is, but it should be like +150% damage. Make it affect all rohan units, not just cavalry.


Agreed. I would like a description on this temporary buff somewhere :q: . It's hard to test if you aren't constantly reminded what you're looking for. Besides, we owe to the newer players so that they don't think that it's a bug.


Remove snaga -.-


Yay :D .


Mumak charge level 2 only.


Agreed. Should an auto-heal ability come rank 3 then? I mean these things are damn expensive...


Let saruman start at level 3?

Let saruman start at level 3?

Let Gandalf start at level 3?


Why do you want this :) ? They might be slow starting out but they pick speed when you level them.

Edited by Scryer, 04 May 2009 - 01:41 AM.

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#12 Anri1

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 04:55 PM

Alright guys, this is where I'm going to keep track of everything I think about the balance of the game at the moment. Feel free to add your own suggestions and stuff, or to critique mine.

Also, in general, mhhs need a major nerf. Also decrease all building upgrade costs and time.

Gondor

Change the blacksmith to a 350 resource building, and take away the upgrade feature. Forged Blades at level 2, heavy armor at level 3. Upgrades also cost a bunch more but get price drops the more blacksmiths you have, like bfme1.

Imrahil is a joke. Fix him somehow.

Let Gandalf start at level 3?


Rohan

Increase the armory price to 1000.

Increase the number of farms needed for rohirrim discounts. Instead of 2-3-4-5 make it 2-4-6-8.

Make 3 hunters a permanent, one use summon. They start at level 3-5. When they die, no reviving.

Give the rohan heroes a purpose (ask scryer about this ;))

For god's sake, give ents a buff! A cave troll took one out.

I currently see no point in rohirrim archers.

When theoden dies, I'm not sure what exactly the buff is, but it should be like +150% damage. Make it affect all rohan units, not just cavalry.

Let Radagast start at level 3?


Elves

-no comments-


Dwarves

I'll leave out my big ideas so my mike won't eat me ;)

Give hammer guardians the hammer model at level 1, make them slightly better (unupgraded) than they are now. Switch hammer upgrade with forged blades/hammers. Level 2 hall only.

Please decrease demolisher trample a little more. I know it's big, but two guys pushing shouldn't be able to run over armies with it.

I don't think guardians and axe-throwers can combo-horde.


Arnor

-no comments-


Mordor

Reduce pp from own guys gettin killed? Sad to have balrog when your enemy jut got his 10pp power.

Make witchking cost 3k and act like a normal nazgul, just a little stronger. He can be upgraded in his commandset with a 5k witch-king upgrade, that changes him into the current one.

Make trolls start melee please.

Remove snaga -.-


Isengard

Shield uruks...

Let saruman start at level 3?


Goblins


Again, melee trolls

Reduce pp from own unit dying again.

Remove call the horde.


MotE

Mumak pen discounted should be 1500.

Mumak charge level 2 only.

I really can't tell that the level 3 rhun barracks pikes are better than the level 1 pikes.


Angmar

Give all wights a MAJOR nerf.

Nerf Kharsh.



Permanent one use summon of 3 hunters?! means usles power :thumbsupsmiley: If Aragorn Legolas and Gimli dies, you have just usles slot!
Maybe it's better to make this way: when 3 hunters are summoned 1st time, they stay and gane xp and they cannot be summoned until all 3 are dead. After that, they could be summoned, but lose their xp.

Rohirim archers can defend you from flying beast such as Nazguls, Dragons etc. they can shoot and flie, thats what nice about tham. And also I wonder how do you imagine this : the Elves have mounted Archers and the most powerful cav. faction has no mounted Archers? - that doesn't fit well. As a compromis, the toggle could be given to Rohirims(as it was in EA).

Radagast lvl 3 - like this one. Radagast is realy usles on his first level. About Saruman - I think he is ok on 1st level. Gandalf, also ok on 1st level.

Nice idea about upgrading Witch-King(Mordor), everything else is also nice.
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#13 Allathar

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 05:02 PM

Ents don't need a nerf. Normal melee does almost no damage to them, so I think that counters it pretty well.
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#14 CTLN7

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 05:20 PM

instaed shield uruks , make shield upgrade ,PLEASE , and uruk scouts skins for simple uruks

#15 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:49 PM

@ Allathar: I disagree. I had an Ent go down in 10 sec. to regular Uruk-hai with no upgrades; 20 sec. to un-upgraded Uruk Crossbows. :thumbsupsmiley:
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#16 Dalf32

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 09:53 PM

ents are waay too weak atm. pretty much anything but standard swordsmen take them out with relative ease.

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#17 Devon

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:05 PM

I currently see no point in rohirrim archers.


Mounted or not mounted? The mounted Rohirrim archers I will argue for. When you have mounted melee riders, you need archers to keep up with them. Especially in a cavalry-based faction.

Other than that, maybe just stick to Yeomen Spearthrowers. But even that's arguable.


I mean the mounted ones, They do zip damage at the moment, are really aren't worth the price it takes to buy them. I'd rather just throw two rohirrim hordes at a horde of pikes than try to use those guys to do anything. Shooting while moving would be a different story...


Let saruman start at level 3?

Let saruman start at level 3?

Let Gandalf start at level 3?


Why do you want this ;) ? They might be slow starting out but they pick speed when you level them.


For one thing, they cost insane amounts and get killed pretty quickly by large amounts of troops, which you can get in RJ moreso than bfme1. And even in bfme1, Gandalf started at 5, and I think Saruman did too.

At least move Radagast's wizard blast down though. He can hardly make it to level 2 by the time you get him in the late game.

Permanent one use summon of 3 hunters?! means usles power :thumbsupsmiley: If Aragorn Legolas and Gimli dies, you have just usles slot!
Maybe it's better to make this way: when 3 hunters are summoned 1st time, they stay and gane xp and they cannot be summoned until all 3 are dead. After that, they could be summoned, but lose their xp.


Lol...no, I suggest you not let them die. Do you know how deadly Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli are if you summon them in the middle of an army? Hardly useless at all...

Besides, this way fits better with the lore anyway.


Rohirim archers can defend you from flying beast such as Nazguls, Dragons etc. they can shoot and flie, thats what nice about tham. And also I wonder how do you imagine this : the Elves have mounted Archers and the most powerful cav. faction has no mounted Archers? - that doesn't fit well. As a compromis, the toggle could be given to Rohirims(as it was in EA).


Yeah, the flying guys is an ok reason, but it's still much more cost effective to build an archery range and just buy tons of archer heralds. More men in a horde, and they might even do more damage.




Allathar, I said give ents a buff, not a nerf. They should really be on par with attack trolls and mountain giants, not worse than basic mountain and cave trolls.

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#18 Dunedain Lord

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:06 PM

id like to see u take down an ent with a single uruk warrior un upgraded along with the crossbow too.
unless they were COMPLETELY nerfed, my. ass.
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#19 Devon

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 10:23 PM

One or two hordes of pikes can do it fairly easily.


These guys cost 1000, and the entmoot itself is 2500. They shouldn't fall like paper to building towers.

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#20 Scryer

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 01:59 AM

I mean the mounted ones, They do zip damage at the moment, are really aren't worth the price it takes to buy them.


Change their damage stat then?

I strongly feel that they should stay.



At least move Radagast's wizard blast down though. He can hardly make it to level 2 by the time you get him in the late game.


I'll agree with this one though :thumbsupsmiley: .

The other wizards should be protected by other units anyways by the time you purchase them.
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