19 replies to this topic

[Megas Pyrrhos]

Okay, so in my Rebel campaign I'm having to destroy almost as many SSD's (sovereign and w/e the other one is called) as I do regular ships. I would almost say that I destroy more SSDs as the Empire won't attack me with anything else....which is why I end up spamming whole fleets of K-wings just to protect my planets. Not fun at all, costly, and boring.

So I want to know is, how do I limit the number the Empire can get those two types of SSDs to either only having one of each at any one time, or one each per lifetime(I'm thinking of doing the one per lifetime to the Sovereign, as despite having a fleet of nothing but K-wings pounding away at one, it still destroyed 6 of my 8 starbases at Brentaal). Thanks to anyone who can tell me how to do this, as my attempts are unsuccessful.

Also, would the change be save-game compatible(I'm thinking no it isn't)?

[coinich]

Probably not save compatible, but a fairly easy mod to do. Check out the mod list (somewhere); at least one person has done that exact thing you want. You might not be able to have the 1 only Sovereign though; it just might be 1 at a time.

[Megas Pyrrhos]

I figured someone would of had had to of done something like this at one point but I've scanned the forums(I'm generally against asking for help unless absolutely needed). I'll look for a thread like that, again, but if someone could find it first and post a link here I'd appreciate that a bunch. Thanks all.

EDIT: I found the minimod that limits the numbers.

Edited by Megas Pyrrhos, 05 May 2009 - 01:03 AM.

[Tropical Bob]

I'm not sure if there are compatible files with the limits. Fortunately, it's a fairly easy fix. Open up any ship XML file that you want to limit (SpaceUnits_Dreadnaughts_ ... .xml), and go under the ship's coding. The SSDs you're talking about should be something like <SpaceUnit Name="E_Sovereign-class_Star_Dreadnaught"> and <SpaceUnit Name="E_Executor-class_Star_Dreadnaught">. Then look for the tag/s <Build_Limit_Current_Per_Player> and/or <Build_Limit_Lifetime_Per_Player>, and adjust the values to your liking.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 05 May 2009 - 01:57 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Well, the tags shouldn't be there at first, so you'll have to add them, but Tropical Bob's right. I'm guessing you cranked up the starting credits though if you're seeing that many SSDs?

Also, I generally tell people that an XML change will make saves incompatible, but that's not always the case; you can get away with some of the simpler ones without any problems. (The simplicity depends on the code behind the tags - build locking seems to be okay, but adding an ability isn't, for example.) You'll know if your save exceptions out whether it's salvageable or not... although that may not happen right away; it could take the AI trying to build one or a similar event. Bottom line: tread at your own peril.

[Megas Pyrrhos]

Yeah I found that build_limit tag way before I even posted on here, and I put the limit to just one ship each, though the credits were cranked up, which might explain why it appeared to have no effect, as the empire seemed to keep sending SSD's(though in hindsight, they weren't increasing their overall fleet size of smaller ships, so maybe they dumped all/most of their starting money into the big ships)...

[Phoenix Rising]

(though in hindsight, they weren't increasing their overall fleet size of smaller ships, so maybe they dumped all/most of their starting money into the big ships)...

That's generally what happens... I'll make a point of addressing that, either with price hikes or different AI logic.

[Tropical Bob]

Yeah I found that build_limit tag way before I even posted on here, and I put the limit to just one ship each, though the credits were cranked up, which might explain why it appeared to have no effect, as the empire seemed to keep sending SSD's(though in hindsight, they weren't increasing their overall fleet size of smaller ships, so maybe they dumped all/most of their starting money into the big ships)...

If you only limited the current number of the ship, they can send more at you as soon as the others are destroyed. That's why you'd have to limit the lifetime build as well.

[Megas Pyrrhos]

Maybe I was wrong, but though I did only limit the current number of them, I was still facing one right after the other, or instances of me defeating one, sending a spy immediately afterwards to a neighboring enemy planet only to discover either another SSD or a pair of them(usually one of each). I also likely could of put the tag line in the wrong area of the SSD files, so it wouldn't of had any effect. The mod I downloaded had replaceable SSD files and I replaced mine with those, though it had no effect(the building limit I believe was only for the research of said SSD ships.). In-game, starting at tech level 5 with oodles of credits, I was spammed by them(though in countering them, i tried a new tactic of spamming cheap mon cal cruisers combined with some e-wings and b-wings). I had about 5 or 6 fleets running around with maybe between 20-50 mon cal cruisers with about a half dozen to a full dozen imp star-II's with them. Still couldn't defeat all the SSD's that popped up, even when I left a small fleet behind on each enemy planet and at one point occupied nearly the entire Shadow Hand campaign enemy planets.

Sorry for being long-winded, I just woke up. Give me a break okay? lol

[Phoenix Rising]

Might as well disable them if they're being so problematic. I do realize that there needs to be a bit more dreadnaught diversity, instead of jumping from 4000 m straight to 17500 m 15000 m (I was still thinking Eclipse for some reason). I just need to track down some appropriate models in that range.

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 18 May 2009 - 07:28 PM.

[Kaleb Graff]

Are there any? The only candidate I know of is the Super-class at 8000m. I favor making that it's own class to get rid of some of the more ridiculous examples of SSD use (BFC).

[Megas Pyrrhos]

Yeah so I went back and made sure I put the tags in the right places on their files, and I made it so that the Empire cannot get the Sovereign class SSD, and I limited the Executor-class ship to 1 ship only at a time, but not lifetime. And look what happened in my Inner Rim campaign(I modified it so that it wouldn't be so laggy at the start, in order to test things):



This was the first time the Imperials tried to attack me. The first thing they throw at me is a nice little group of SSD's. How they managed it idk. They're the Empire. It's what they do. Fortunately, I have a nice little fleet to greet them, plus a fleet on standby that's filled with a dozen or so Imp Star III's and Republics.

EDIT: The aftermath of the battle had me vaping one of the Executor SSD's and the Sovereign SSD, while only losing the pair of Golan-II's and a republic-class SD. I would of lost my mc120a cruiser but the Sovereign's laser kept being thwarted by a trio of fully upgraded hajen tenders. I lost the Golans and the SD because the SSD gave up trying to take out my big cruiser. hehe.

Edited by Megas Pyrrhos, 18 May 2009 - 02:40 AM.

[Phoenix Rising]

Are there any? The only candidate I know of is the Super-class at 8000m. I favor making that it's own class to get rid of some of the more ridiculous examples of SSD use (BFC).

Good question... it depends. We don't know exact lengths for the Bulwark, Dauntless, Mediator, Allegiance, Praetor, Procurator, Superior, or Mandator - even the Independence, really, is just a good estimation. Then there are just as many unnamed and/or one-shot vessels with even less known about them, although obviously the Empire has the advantage in terms of variety. Furthermore, I would consider something like the Subjugator-class for the Alliance, but it's highly unlikely that a model would exist for it. So there are candidates, but few really good, well-documented options.

Yeah so I went back and made sure I put the tags in the right places on their files, and I made it so that the Empire cannot get the Sovereign class SSD, and I limited the Executor-class ship to 1 ship only at a time, but not lifetime. And look what happened in my Inner Rim campaign(I modified it so that it wouldn't be so laggy at the start, in order to test things):

Hm . They must be spawning "magic" fleets somehow. I'll see if that behavior can be disabled...

[Megas Pyrrhos]

Are you certain you don't need to restart the campaign for the tags to take effect?

I've restarted the campaigns multiple times. Hence why I modified it to make it a little easier on my patience when it loads and at the start of the campaign, to better test the tags. If I remember correctly what I did last night was I went into the starbases.xml file and just took them away from the Empire's ability to make them, at all, at a lvl 5 base. Hopefully, that will make them more agreeable and cooperative.

EDIT: After having modified the above file, it appears that, in fact so far, they won't be bringing any dreadnaughts to the party anymore. On the downside, the AI is now acting kinda stupid, as their space navy is rather poor and they don't seem inclined to improve much upon it. Nothing more advanced than Acclamators that they're throwing at me, and they're not building starbases to make more fleets(only Chazwa, one of their starting worlds, has a starbase lvl 3 and a lvl 2).

Edited by Megas Pyrrhos, 20 May 2009 - 02:03 PM.

[Aizen Teppa]

Hmm... I know thread is a bit old (May), but I don't like to create a new one if there was similar before.

I started playing more and more as a Rebellion lately and found out that it is pretty unplayable. I did exactly the same thing after my first "normal" unmodified campaign. Edited XML to limit SSD - 1 at a time - (defending Coruscant against 14 of this things is not exactly my idea of having fun). Unfortunately <Build_Limit_Current_Per_Player>1</Build_Limit_Current_Per_Player> do not work at all. But that is not the biggest problem. I buffed up prices and time, but Empire AI seems unaffected by 15000000 credits and nearly 70 minutes required to build one Executor and 20M/90 min to build 1 Sov.

Biggest problem is AI spawning random ships at various destinations where it can't build them. Example:

Empire hold 5 planets: Ord Trasi, Hissy... whatever, Troghan, Linuri, Honogr (sorry with names guys but I'm not SW geek, writing from memory ). Anyway, Ord Trasi can build ships up to level 4, Hissym-something only 1, Troghan up to 3 but AI starting without starbases there, Linuri - 2 and Honogr - up to 2 but no starbases when campaign starts (in this example Thrawn C.). Yet AI found a way to spawn miracle fleets. I started over and over, new TC games for past 2 days and it happen over and over again. Somehow Hissym building SSD (Executor) at an impressive rate. Ord Trasi spawning random numbers of SSD and/or Praetor (hmm... Romulans? ) battlecruisers. In this particular example Empire is pinned down by the Rebellion. I have ~50 Mk2 Bulwarks, MC120as, and equally strong MC80 contingent + ~200 ATRs, B-Wings and other insects around them. Yet everytime I defeat one or 2 Executors at Ord Trasi another 1 appearing at Hissym (if 2-3 Preators appear there I ignore them because I have enough firepower to overcome them, but then at Troghan at least 2 SSDs with some escort waiting for me) and I can't continue the offensive because instantly I'm swamped by SSD.

When I playing Empire it is all nice and fun (well to some extent at least when you face impotent AI), because I always try to win the hard way. Building maybe 1 SSD to keep him at Coruscant as an insurance, but when playing against Empire AI, it is not fun. So with a heavy heart, even if both ships are magnificently encoded and rendered I removed them from my PR. It is simply too much to take.

[Tropical Bob]

One thing you can try is to remove the "Generate Magic Space Defense" AI scripts. I believe PR disabled them, but the AI might be cheating. Go into ...Data\Scripts\AI\ and either:
a) Delete the files named GenerateMagicSpaceDefense.lua, or
b) I'm not sure if that'll crash the game or not (On FoC attempting to locate those files, failing, and crying in the corner instead of working anymore), so you can comment out the body of the script file. I think for LUA files, to comment out, you use two hyphens: --

Not sure if that'll help or not, but it's worth a try, yes?

EDIT: Look at PR's post below for the proper way to turn it off.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 09 September 2009 - 04:21 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

a) Delete the files named GenerateMagicSpaceDefense.lua

No, that'll just cause them to revert to the vanilla versions. You actually have to turn them "off"... and even then, I'm not 100% sure it'll fix the problem. Simply open the "magic" LUAs and change the category to AlwaysOff. That effectively zeroes out the AI's ability to use those scripts, but it's still possible the ships are coming from elsewhere in the code. Let me know how it works out.

[Tropical Bob]

Just poking around somewhat (And certainly not knowing what any of it means), I found a ProximitySpawnTrigger.lua in ...Data\Scripts\Game Object\, as well as some Magic Space Defense references in lines 255-301 DefensiveGalacticEquations.xml in ...\Data\XML\AI\.

Don't know if those are looking into or not, but I don't like the sounds of "proximity spawn" and "generate magic space defense" being mentioned anywhere...

Edited by Tropical Bob, 09 September 2009 - 04:39 PM.

[Phoenix Rising]

ProximitySpawnTrigger.lua - or any of the GameObject LUAs, really - would have minor consequence on the game. They only regulate behavior for individual units, so while I don't know what that script goes to without checking further, I'd say it's probably a one-shot thing that was used in the campaigns or something to that effect.

With the further "magic" listings in AI XMLs, that's just the other half of the aforementioned LUAs for them. Everything in Scripts\AI should have corresponding functionality in XML\AI. If you turn off the LUAs, none of it matters. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that they were actually turned off for v1.1 like I thought...

Edited by Phoenix Rising, 09 September 2009 - 07:31 PM.