96 replies to this topic

[Pasidon]

Yea, it was like one of Ash's posts.

[Vortigern]

why don't you sum it up for us?

Yes, and then you can sum it up for an old chap in my village called Bert, who I have just learned has a number tattooed into his arm from a Nazi prison camp. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear it was all just a big hoax.

[Allathar]

I listened to it for a while, to sum the first part up he says it's not a hoax, but it's exaggerated. He also finds it very strange that the media always shows the horrible pictures of the holocaust, while completely ignoring the slaughtering of many humans by the communists after that (Stalin's death camps, the killing fields, Mao's cleansing, etc.) which were ten times worse, about dozens of millions lives or so. Why do we have so much empathy for the Jewish victims, yet go 'meh' with the victims of communist cleansings, which numbers are way larger?

I don't know whether it's exaggarated or not, and I surely don't believe the holocaust is a hoax, but the guy has definately got a point there.

Edited by Allathar, 21 June 2009 - 11:24 AM.

[duke_Qa]

It's true that the soviet camps were more brutal, but that doesnt mean the holocaust on the jews by nazi germany was nothing.

The soviets were pretty indiscriminate in who they killed off, as long as they were against soviet that was enough for them.
all in all, everything on the east front was 10x as big as on the west front. casualties, battles, genocides. we just don't hear about them because we had a cold war the last 60 years where any sympathy for the enemy would get you branded a communist

[Pasidon]

Yes, and then you can sum it up for an old chap in my village called Bert, who I have just learned has a number tattooed into his arm from a Nazi prison camp. I'm sure he'd be thrilled to hear it was all just a big hoax.

[Sarcasm]Why Vort... you know someone from a Nazi concentration camp who didn't enjoy the world's biggest practical joke? Why that's outrageous.[/Sarcasm]

[CIL]

Kacen, maybe you should go visit Auschwitz or any other concentration camp and see for yourself. It's pretty convincing. Oh, and by the way, you just broke the law in Austria. You can be imprisoned for Holocaust Denial.

This may be a little late, but Kacen also broke the law in Germany and, if I recall correctly, Poland.

[Casen]

I listened to it for a while, to sum the first part up he says it's not a hoax, but it's exaggerated. He also finds it very strange that the media always shows the horrible pictures of the holocaust, while completely ignoring the slaughtering of many humans by the communists after that (Stalin's death camps, the killing fields, Mao's cleansing, etc.) which were ten times worse, about dozens of millions lives or so. Why do we have so much empathy for the Jewish victims, yet go 'meh' with the victims of communist cleansings, which numbers are way larger?

I don't know whether it's exaggarated or not, and I surely don't believe the holocaust is a hoax, but the guy has definately got a point there.

A better term is holocaust revisionist. No one in their right mind is saying no one died and there were no camps. It's the fact no gas chambers were used to kill human beings like in the official story, the soap and lampshades made out of people being fraudulent, and the numbers inflated, among many other things. The people generally died of typhus and lack of food, due to the war going and Germany's inability to take care of the prisoners. Imagine if the U.S.A. was invaded during World War II, what do you think we'd have done with the Japanese internment camps? Probably neglected them and stopped feeding them to focus resources to aid citizens we didn't declare security risks. And you'd probably see loads of dead bodies in the Japanese internment camps afterward. The same thing happened in Nazi Germany.

When people say the holocaust is a "hoax" they mean the official story is hoaxed.

This may be a little late, but Kacen also broke the law in Germany and, if I recall correctly, Poland.

Think about that. It is the only conspiracy theory in the world that it's against the law to say.

You can say the moon landing was a hoax, and the US government doesn't care. Why? They have the documents, they know they've been to the moon, fuck you can see the landing sites on the moon if you have a strong enough telescope. The US government knows it happened so they don't care if a few conspiracy nuts say it didn't happen.

Same principle for the JFK assassinations and the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. The government knows what happened so they don't care too much.

But why is it illegal to simply want to open an investigation into the Holocaust? You simply ask questions and you can get arrested in many countries. Why? They need to silence the truth. If the Holocaust happened as it officially did they'd have no need to make laws against denying the official story. The fact that there are laws proves there's something they're hiding.

They don't want people who've done their research to speak up.

That and the psychotic emphasis on the holocaust in the media in books in schools when there were bigger mass murders in history. Hell we were in a Cold fucking War with the Soviets for roughly 45 years and yet still the holocaust is emphasized over all of the Soviet atrocities, which killed way more people, even if the official holocaust number of 6 million Jews, 12 million people in total were true (which it's not).

Edited by Kacen, 22 June 2009 - 09:37 AM.

[m@tt]

It's the fact no gas chambers were used to kill human beings like in the official story

If it was a "fact", then we would know. It's your opinion.

That and the psychotic emphasis on the holocaust in the media in books in schools when there were bigger mass murders in history. Hell we were in a Cold fucking War with the Soviets for roughly 45 years and yet still the holocaust is emphasized over all of the Soviet atrocities, which killed way more people, even if the official holocaust number of 6 million Jews, 12 million people in total were true (which it's not).

The fact that emphasis is placed on it (over potentially worse events) doesn't make it less true.

[Casen]

If it was a "fact", then we would know. It's your opinion.

An opinion is someone's view on something trivial, I.E. "I like chocolate better than vanilla."

This is history here, no opinions, just fact or fiction, and it's possible for what we're taught as fact to be over exaggerated fiction.

The fact that emphasis is placed on it (over potentially worse events) doesn't make it less true.

The utterly extreme emphasis on it over other mass murders is suspicious to say the least when you really think about it.

Of course that's not proof alone, but there's plenty more provided in the vid I linked, so much that merely summarizing it would take an hour and simply not worth it when you could just listen to the video. You people probably just ride the video off as "conspiracy nonsense" so don't bother watching it, when even Allathar had the guts to admit it made good points even at the beginning.

Give it a chance then get back to me.

I sat through Alex Jones' idiot vids, they didn't prove shit. I sat through many other conspiracy theorist videos on the moon landing, JFK, 9/11, etc. I've seen all that bullshit debunked...well most. There's still some oddities about the JFK incident but I reserve my full judgment for that.

The claims in this vid, I have not seen debunked, hell when a question is asked about the holocaust no correction is made to disprove what one is claiming, you're merely silenced.

Edited by Kacen, 22 June 2009 - 10:06 AM.

[Vortigern]

Kacen, the reason it's illegal to deny the Holocaust and not the moon landing is because nobody died on the moon. Millions died in concentration camps. To deny it is to deny their deaths, even their very existence. It shows nothing but contempt for their suffering and, frankly, makes you look like a callous bastard. People were murdered in the concentration camps. I have seen the gas chambers in person. They are real, OK? Why don't you head over to Auschwitz or Dachau and revise your opinion?

I'm not saying it might not be exaggerated, or that worse atrocities were not committed by the Russians, just that the Holocaust did happen and millions of people did die because of it. To deny it seems to me to be roughly equivalent to saying the Roman empire was a hoax. You're denying a massive part of history ever happened, and you're wrong. That's all there is to it.

[Allathar]

Not denying, but relativising. Also, I don't understand why it's forbidden to deny the holocaust... Even if it's true, so what, one idiot denies it, who cares?

Edited by Allathar, 22 June 2009 - 04:13 PM.

[CIL]

It's the fact no gas chambers were used to kill human beings like in the official story

If it was a "fact", then we would know. It's your opinion.

That and the psychotic emphasis on the holocaust in the media in books in schools when there were bigger mass murders in history. Hell we were in a Cold fucking War with the Soviets for roughly 45 years and yet still the holocaust is emphasized over all of the Soviet atrocities, which killed way more people, even if the official holocaust number of 6 million Jews, 12 million people in total were true (which it's not).

The fact that emphasis is placed on it (over potentially worse events) doesn't make it less true.

It's possible to deny facts, you know. It's a fact that people have visited the moon, but it's also fact that people still deny that'. It's the same case here.

Anyways, the things that puts this waaay over the edge is, in my opinion, are the circumstances. Just consider how Hitler came to power and what also happened. Perhaps you'll be saying that only Russia fought Germany and that the bombings on London didn't happen?

And if the Holocaust didn't happen, what happened to the 6 million Jews that did die in it?

[Allathar]

And if the Holocaust didn't happen, what happened to the 6 million Jews that did die in it?

According to the theory (not saying it's my opinion, I haven't fully seen the vid and the evidence yet, so I haven't made up my mind), the holocaust did happen, but was exaggerated, for the gazillionth time. He's not denying the holocaust, but he's denying the 'facts' of the holocaust. And the several million jews that died, is just a statistic. Everyone knows statistics can be easily faked and exaggerated.

Edited by Allathar, 22 June 2009 - 08:02 PM.

[Rattuskid]

I listened to it for a while, to sum the first part up he says it's not a hoax, but it's exaggerated. He also finds it very strange that the media always shows the horrible pictures of the holocaust, while completely ignoring the slaughtering of many humans by the communists after that (Stalin's death camps, the killing fields, Mao's cleansing, etc.) which were ten times worse, about dozens of millions lives or so. Why do we have so much empathy for the Jewish victims, yet go 'meh' with the victims of communist cleansings, which numbers are way larger?

Jews have good media representation. This is why although there are like ten million victims of the holocaust, you only ever hear about the jews, or the homosexuals (who had the best chance of getting out) and not the gypsies who also died in droves.

Also, Stalin, while inhuman, didn't invade any other nations for the express purpose of gathering their racial minorities up and shipping them off to camps. Stalinism is based around paranoia and canning as many people as possible. If the guy didn't die in 1952, the USSR probably would have suffered a collapse in all sectors as early as 1955. The system was eating itself to death.

A better term is holocaust revisionist. No one in their right mind is saying no one died and there were no camps. It's the fact no gas chambers were used to kill human beings like in the official story, the soap and lampshades made out of people being fraudulent, and the numbers inflated, among many other things. The people generally died of typhus and lack of food, due to the war going and Germany's inability to take care of the prisoners. Imagine if the U.S.A. was invaded during World War II, what do you think we'd have done with the Japanese internment camps? Probably neglected them and stopped feeding them to focus resources to aid citizens we didn't declare security risks. And you'd probably see loads of dead bodies in the Japanese internment camps afterward. The same thing happened in Nazi Germany.

Let's assume you're correct in all that (you aren't, there were concentration camps, death camps and work camps; looking at a work camp and not seeing a gas chamber is about as much 'proof' as looking at a minimum security prison and noting the lack of lethal injection equipment).

What the fuck does that change. Even if it's 'neglect', the German government still displaced these people, concentrated them then let them die. They took these people from their homes and fucking LET THEM DIE, not for security reasons, but because they were fucking scapegoats. Don't you dare say they weren't starved purposefully either... Stalin pulled that shit too, it was a common tactic.

It's murder either fucking way!

[killakanz]

The gas chambers didn't need to be air-tight. The gas works on concentration in a confined area.

As an example, when I was in army training we had the CBRN course, the 'gas chamber' we were sent in was a small brick hut with a wooden door and even a stone hole in one of the windows. We were still choking to death from the CS released into there, but once we were outside and the gas dispersed we were fine again.

[Comrade General]

I'm actually having doubts. You see these pictures of supposed "gas chambers", when they're made of brick with wooden doors. Not even airtight.

In the 1920's American prisons had gas chambers used for executions. They were sophisticated metal devices with airtight "submarine doors"...

Something isn't right. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this just...fucks with my brain.

I don't WANT to believe.

Edit: http://video.google....670744744115111

Fully convinced now...

My guess is that those gas chambers made from poor source materials were the ones that were made earlier, when the Germans were still using truck exhaust to kill Jews, not the deadlier gases they used later. Where were those. That theory's still in the "guess" stage, though; I only thought of it when I read this. Where are those gas chambers located again?

I don't think they needed that much airtightness if they were going to just toss a ton of gas in with them. Besides, I've seen pictures of washrooms that lock tight and gas the people when they wash up. The fact is that there were gas chambers and they were used.

Or they probably just used tons of gas on their victims while the soldiers wore gas-masks. Yes, that could work too.

Edited by Puppeteer, 16 October 2009 - 05:09 PM.

[Spectre]

There's a reason threads more than maybe a month old are not supposed to be brought back. We were happy discontinuing the conversation and would like if it were to stay as such.