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Is God the "good guy"?


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#21 Duke

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 05:45 AM

It's kinda sad the amount of dumb-asses that make stupid posts that make religion in general look bad. I know some awesome christians :unsure:

#22 Rattuskid

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 06:24 AM

I know what to do if Jesus comes back from the dead. Aim for the head. That's what you do with undead things.
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#23 Caspa

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 07:46 AM

It's kinda sad the amount of dumb-asses that make stupid posts that make religion in general look bad.

What's sad is that it takes no real effort to make religion look bad. A mere modicum of knowledge is all you need and the rest just falls into place. Organised religion is self-satirising like that.
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#24 olli

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:58 AM

Screw religion, cults are where it's at.

Edited by olli, 13 October 2009 - 09:59 AM.

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#25 Pasidon

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:48 PM

I know what to do if Jesus comes back from the dead. Aim for the head. That's what you do with undead things.

Don't mess with Zombie Jesus.

#26 feillyne

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:48 AM

Well, I'm not a Christian anymore, but to summarise my opinion:
1) There is no GODDDESS/GOD/SOURCE/WHATEVER in the Bible. The SOURCE cannot and can be defined. IT is and IT isn't. IT is good and bad, and IT isn't good or evil. There are no terms by whom you can define anything truly godly.
You can't write anything and claim it's created or inspired by SOURCE. SOURCE gives it life, but have no contribution in "personal" manner.*
2) "God", or rather gods ("God" is named Elohim, plural: gods, even if it's only used as an emphasis), can be angels, architects, whom SOURCE "designated" (by creating them such) to create universes, planets, and so on. These "higher" beings could be much alike angels.
To follow it further, angels = devils, or angels ~= devils. Only SOURCE could then be 'good', i.e. truly neutral. So anything good must be bad too, including so-called "angels". You can argue, but humans always will be commiting both evil and good deeds, sometimes some deeds will be differently interpreted (in future). Anybody saying that he's good, is already haughty ("evil"). :-p

So "gods" can be devils/angels claiming that they possess humankind, or at least make with humans "alliances", both in OT and NT, on different terms (more/less belligerent ones).
That can be a reason of this gods' malevolent behaviour. But it's just an interpretation, my own interpretation. Don't believe it at all, don't find it reasonable and don't respect it.


* Well, even this personal definition is bullshit, lmao.

#27 Mathijs

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 01:01 AM

You're overanalyzing it. There is no god, never has been, never will be. No angels, no demons, no Lucifer, no divine intervention, no divine plan, no faith healing, no Maria sightings, no Ark, no magical hippie, no man in the sky watching your every move, your prayers will always remain unanswered.

By now, I can honestly say that anyone who really, genuinely believes there is a god is a goddamn moron and I cannot bring myself to respecting them. The sheer amount of rediculous stupidity required to, in this day and age, believe in god is just too horrible for me to try and make sense of.

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#28 feillyne

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 02:17 AM

Perhaps. Hmm, prayers have something to do with e.g. dreams, or with the power of self-realisation. They just help a human believe in something he wants to achieve (something he cannot convince himself to fulfill in a casual way). So prayers aren't answered by "GOD", but by oneself (a 'magic' trick).

Edited by feillyne, 14 October 2009 - 02:19 AM.


#29 Pasidon

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 04:12 AM

The point debating whether God exists or not is not really the age-long debate's core. During the Great Awakening, some guy ended up stating, "There may be no truth in the bible, yet I cannot imagine a world, goddess in any sense." So they kept God in the US governing system since. We keep religion because it defines a set of morals. To us, defines what is good and what is evil, and that evil is lawless. I don't give a darn care if they prove Mosses was a child raping scientologist, I stay Catholic because I know there is a true evil in the world, and I don't want any part of it. Though, according to the Chaos Theory, I use religion as a code of conduct, and that's basically not false.

#30 Vortigern

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 10:49 AM

That's all religion should be: a code of conduct. It's not an excuse for war, it's not a justification for anything, it's not anything more than a way of life with some rules. If people could just accept that their religion has no business interfering with anyone else's business then nobody would give a shit any more. We just all hate having priests, Jehovah's Witnesses and televangelists up in our business.

Also, Ash, technically Hitler wasn't singlehandedly responsible for the Final Solution, and Adolf Eichmann (who was) would have made an excellent addendum to your point. He followed the orders of his boss, coming up with the most efficient way in which to kill people wholesale and dispose of the remains at minimum cost and with minimum hassle. When, after the defeat of Nazi Germany, he was tried as a war criminal, he still didn't realise he'd done anything wrong. He was just a technician doing what he was told, and he did it extremely well.
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#31 Mathijs

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:48 AM

The point debating whether God exists or not is not really the age-long debate's core. During the Great Awakening, some guy ended up stating, "There may be no truth in the bible, yet I cannot imagine a world, goddess in any sense." So they kept God in the US governing system since. We keep religion because it defines a set of morals. To us, defines what is good and what is evil, and that evil is lawless. I don't give a darn care if they prove Mosses was a child raping scientologist, I stay Catholic because I know there is a true evil in the world, and I don't want any part of it. Though, according to the Chaos Theory, I use religion as a code of conduct, and that's basically not false.

I find Christian morality to be absolutely immoral, actually.

Thou shalt not kill, for one. It's too rigid and inflexible (and hypocrite!) to be of any use in the modern world, and it stands in the way of freedom of choice. Abortion, euthanasia, etc.

Also, you're a catholic because you recognize ''evil'' and want nothing to do with it? What the fuck? Why do you need to be a catholic for that? Sounds to me like you're just another moron saying that only the religious truly recognize what's wrong and right in this world.

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#32 DIGI_Byte

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:06 PM

What can any one say?

I could quote a few saying about god from movies that represent either god himself or the believers.

But if you look at it, Does it really matter if god is good or not?
we are only mortals, We are fucked either way.


I'm tempted to post my numerous possible theores but its not the time and I don't want to be flamed by posting things I've contemplated about "Religion" and "God"


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#33 Allathar

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 02:07 PM

Well, I don't care whether anyone believes in a religion or not, as long as they don't shove it in my face.
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#34 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 02:48 PM

The reason I even posted in this topic is when I was Younger I saw a Vision 'Or Ten' Of Heaven ....
The last sentence is just that the ANGELS and the Coucil Elders ( They wear white robes )
said not to discuss the vision with any-one as it would interfere with the JUDGEMENT Process


YES : When I saw It I almost 'Shit my pants' ...I was Scared Stiff
But Heaven is such a peacefull place that you soon forget this and all your worries

I guess arguing GOD is GOOD is biased for me but....
He sure is better than everybody Else

His anger is for a moment but his love is Everlasting


=================================================
I don't mean to offend your intellectual debate
I am not a wise person by this world's standard
But I can describe heaven in alot of detail
I know alot of secrets not found in books
Which I can't tell unless I know you Personally ...especially not on an Internet Forum

Don't offend the ALMIGHTY , It would be Wise

You are all right unless proven wrong by the Almighty
I am here for the BFME2 Mods so off I go
Never to return to this topic

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 15 October 2009 - 03:12 PM.


#35 olli

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:18 PM

What is up with the fucked up way that you type? It's like you are on drugs or something.

And now you're definitely not going to heaven, because you just broke the promise that you had to keep in order to get in. Too bad :)
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#36 JUS_SAURON

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:19 PM

And now you're definitely not going to heaven, because you just broke the promise that you had to keep in order to get in. Too bad :)

Naw ..Still get to go ..The promise is not a condition like that ...I CAN tell the whole world if I wanted
They just advised me that most will not believe and laugh me to scorn
Peace and Love ;)

Edited by JUS_SAURON, 15 October 2009 - 06:25 PM.


#37 Allathar

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:52 PM

Well, can't hurt to give it a try. Besides, it's not like anyone here knows you personally, so we won't laugh you in the face. Good to know there's at least some democracy in heaven, though, and God is not having a dictatorship.
It has been reported that some victims of rape, during the act, would retreat into a fantasy world from which they could not WAKE UP. In this catatonic state, the victim lived in a world just like their normal one, except they weren't being raped. The only way that they realized they needed to WAKE UP was a note they found in their fantasy world. It would tell them about their condition, and tell them to WAKE UP. Even then, it would often take months until they were ready to discard their fantasy world and PLEASE WAKE UP

#38 Pasidon

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:00 PM

Also, you're a catholic because you recognize ''evil'' and want nothing to do with it? What the fuck? Why do you need to be a catholic for that? Sounds to me like you're just another moron saying that only the religious truly recognize what's wrong and right in this world.

Well it's not like Atheists have much of a better case on morals. It's either be a relatively stable religion or just be faithless and bitter about the uselessness of the universe.

#39 Vortigern

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 07:56 PM

There is middle ground, you know. It is possible to have a moral code and not be religious, just as it is possible to be perfectly happy without resorting to some unknowable guiding light. These days I'd say I'm as happy as I've ever been, and religion plays no part in my existence whatsoever.

Also, don't generalise. Would you say that the mafia have good morals because they're all a bunch of Catholics? No. Neither would I. Religion brings out the best and the worst in people. At least atheism provides some consistency.
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#40 Ash

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:46 PM

What is up with the fucked up way that you type? It's like you are on drugs or something.

Well, he's from Trinidad...I imagine the English/Trinidadi translator he's using isn't exactly going to get perfect grammar (this coming from the resident grammarian). In all fairness, his grammar's still better than half of Revora's British, American and Australian userbase.

The reason I even posted in this topic is when I was Younger I saw a Vision 'Or Ten' Of Heaven ....
The last sentence is just that the ANGELS and the Coucil Elders ( They wear white robes )
said not to discuss the vision with any-one as it would interfere with the JUDGEMENT Process

Ehm, well you're doing a fantastic job! Nice job breaking it, an hero...

Now, I'm going to be completely honest. I don't believe a word about this here vision. What I believe happened was either, you had a really wacked out dream, or that you are schizophrenic. I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and go with the former, but only because this happened when you were younger (and so clearly aren't given to relapse).

But Heaven is such a peacefull place that you soon forget this and all your worries

Wow, maybe I should move to Trinidad. Apparently your passports cover the fucking AFTERLIFE. Do not profess to know, for you have not been or seen. And if it's so great and peaceful, one has to wonder what everyone (even the particularly devout) is waiting for. OK you've got the suicide bombers after their fifty-three virgins, but they're rather an exceptional case. Defying the commandments and fundamental laws of their religion and somehow, by doing so, buying themselves a ticket to paradise. Yes, I'm sure.

He sure is better than everybody Else

Prove it. I have yet to see any evidence, from you, anyone or anything else on this planet, that God (assuming he exists, which, for the purpose of this paragraph, we will) is anything but a malevolent, egotistical, magnificent bastard. He has killed individuals, committed genocide, encouraged others to kill in His name, sacrificed people like pawns, and demands that the entire world be made up entirely of his utterly obedient slaves. And those are just His crimes against humanity that I can think of off the top of my head. Basically, this God character fulfils pretty much every villain trope on the site.

His anger is for a moment but his love is Everlasting

Oh, really? Tell that to all those heretics and unbelievers who were killed by his divine whim (in any of the scriptures), or by his many followers whose hand he did not stay.

Let's see him show a bit of this fucking love.

I don't mean to offend your intellectual debate
I am not a wise person by this world's standard
But I can describe heaven in alot of detail
I know alot of secrets not found in books
Which I can't tell unless I know you Personally ...especially not on an Internet Forum

Don't offend the ALMIGHTY , It would be Wise

You are all right unless proven wrong by the Almighty
I am here for the BFME2 Mods so off I go
Never to return to this topic

Oh please. Blow it out your rear. You can't describe jack shit because you've never seen. Nobody has. I like the first sentence of last paragraph, though. Mostly because he isn't going to prove me wrong, is he? Let's see some evidence of his divinity, his benevolence, or whatever. Because in my 21 years I've not seen one shred of evidence.


Naw ..Still get to go ..The promise is not a condition like that ...I CAN tell the whole world if I wanted
They just advised me that most will not believe and laugh me to scorn
Peace and Love :)

Yeah, because you've nothing to back up your claims. That you haven't quoted scripture or said what God'll do to me for slamming him endears you somewhat to me, but you cannot spout such monumental clap-trap without at least a bit of evidence to support it. Alternately, I know the number of a couple of decent psychiatrists you may wish to get in touch with.

Well, can't hurt to give it a try. Besides, it's not like anyone here knows you personally, so we won't laugh you in the face. Good to know there's at least some democracy in heaven, though, and God is not having a dictatorship.

Oh, don't count on it. God makes the rules, but he's free to break them at any time he wishes, and then simply to put the game away (or kill the other players) because he can't be bothered anymore, or because people decide not to play his game. Sounds every bit like a dictatorship to me.

Well it's not like Atheists have much of a better case on morals. It's either be a relatively stable religion or just be faithless and bitter about the uselessness of the universe.

Excuse me? Name a time where atheists have massacred entire populations for their not being atheists. Or where we use fear of a transcendental punishment to force others to not believe? On those grounds alone, atheism wins. Then there's the fact we're free to define our own moral code without it being dictated or mandated to us.

And I believe you're attributing my own cynicism to the atheist community as a whole. I do indeed believe the universe to be useless, and I am pretty bitter about everything in general, but that's because I'm a selfish cunt; not because I have any beef with the universe as a whole. I just notice my own total insignificance in the scale of it.

There is middle ground, you know. It is possible to have a moral code and not be religious, just as it is possible to be perfectly happy without resorting to some unknowable guiding light. These days I'd say I'm as happy as I've ever been, and religion plays no part in my existence whatsoever.

Also, don't generalise. Would you say that the mafia have good morals because they're all a bunch of Catholics? No. Neither would I. Religion brings out the best and the worst in people. At least atheism provides some consistency.

Agreed completely.




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