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Canon vs. Non Canon


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#1 Ed Of The 3rd Kind

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 03:02 AM

In terms of the films, the last statement Lucas left was this....

TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?"
LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

I think it's a great subject, well perhaps not considering our time frame but it would be interesting to know what you personally consider as canon and non canon. This topic is quite important in terms of what could be given a scope within the terms of the mod...

Edited by Ed Of The 3rd Kind, 27 May 2009 - 03:38 AM.

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#2 CIL

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 06:47 AM

Lucas turned the reigns of canon over to the producers and authors long ago.
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#3 Uruk King

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 09:49 AM

Even so, I'm happy with the number of Features there are so right now, if more sequels are produced they would be irrelavent, confusing, and over al not as good as the original stories, alternatively if they did turn out to be good, they would overshadow the original three, like Revenge of the Sith did. I remeber a critic saying it was "better than the original Star Wars". I liked the movie, but seeing it overshadow the orignials, kind of made me feel like it wasn't fair.
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#4 Ed Of The 3rd Kind

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 01:11 PM

I remember reading that too, for me the original series will never be overshadowed. It had a real charm right from the beginning, once you see the two suns on tatooine you've been transported, the real charm is the way the characters related to one another, particularly the relationship between Han & Leia, that chemistry is alot different from the seemingly shallow relationship between Padme & Anakin. The physical use of special FX as opposed to digitised creations also added alittle more reality to it, sure you can complain that the death star, would explode, there's no sounds in space but these are all part of the experience. While I love the prequel trilogy, except the Phantom Menace there is nothing bad I can say about the original trilogy, I was one of the few that thought the Ewoks were okay.

CIL - While that is the case, the only real canon atleast in my books is that which is confirmed by Lucas himself, not someone he's allowed to give an opinion for him. To me that's like Michaelangelo letting someone else finish off the cistine chapel, it's just not right, atleast in my opinion! Saying that I can understand why he did it, the universe was getting much too large for him to keep a hold over, every other day there is a new planet, with new aliens further expanding the galaxy.

Edited by Ed Of The 3rd Kind, 25 May 2009 - 01:23 PM.

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#5 Annullus The Grey

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 02:38 PM

well according to cannon you cant really kill palpatine without sacrificing your soul and remember l;ucas approves all eu crap ;)
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#6 CIL

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 08:11 PM

Annullus is right in that he does approve of the EU stuff, but Lucas isn't really in charge of what he gets to approve these days :dry:.
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#7 Annullus The Grey

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 08:22 PM

it still gets his say so but anyway decent eu kinda stopped after the thrawn trilogy
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#8 Jeth Calark

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 05:07 AM

I pretty much consider movies, anything on TV except for the Holiday Special, and the EU to be canon, aside from a few exceptions like the already mentioned Holiday Special.

That's my personal stance on it. :dry:

#9 Nertea

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 07:02 PM

There's a whole supermassive debate on this on a Trek vs Wars site somewhere, though I can't be bothered to dig it up. Basically it can be summarized as a cascading system:

1) Prequel Movies
2) Original Trilogy Movies
3) Tie-In Novels
4) Cartoons (eg. Clone Wars)
5) Other EU Novels/Comics
6) Board/Video Games

Where essentially anything in say, item 5 is canon unless contradicted by information in 4, 3, 2 or 1. The reason the prequels are level 1 is becuse he retconned a lot of things mentioned in the OT. These new "visions" of things are technically more canon.
Also there are sublevels that I can't remember in the EU novels/comics sections. IIRC offically licensed arcs (Thrawn, NJO, Legacy) win over anything mentioned in more individual novels. I don't remember where the star wars RPG books fit in but I think they supersede most things.

Additionally, basing any arguments on games is almost pointless because theyre often contradictory to EVERYTHING.

Edited by Nertea, 26 May 2009 - 07:04 PM.

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#10 Annullus The Grey

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 07:05 PM

you forget lucas statements are the highest form of cannon :lol:
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#11 Jeth Calark

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 08:24 PM

Dude, just because Lucas says something doesn't mean it's official canon. Take Anakin's scar in Episode III.

When asked about where Anakin got the scar, Lucas replied, "I don't know. Ask Howard (Howard Roffman, President of Lucas Licensing). That's one of those things that happens in the novels between the movies. I just put it there. He (Howard Roffman) has to explain how it got there. I think Anakin got it slipping in the bathtub, but of course, he's not going to tell anybody that."

Here we have a statement from Lucas saying that he put the scar in merely cause he wanted to, but the origin and story behind the scar is left to Howard Roffman. Lucas' comment about slipping in the bathtub is just his personal thought (it's also of course a funny comeback), but only that. Had Lucas wanted that official, it would have been explained that way in the movie.

You see, the movies are George Lucas' defined vision of Star Wars.....and lots of little (and big) things are unexplained, like say "Why doesn't Watto sweat on Tatooine?" Lucas has his personal thoughts and explanations about all those things, but they're only just that. His only, not meant to be applied as the "definitive" explanation. In some cases, he actually turns over the responsibility of explaining something to another person.

Anakin's scar was later written to be a memento from his fierce duel with Asajj Ventress on Yavin 4.

Edited by Jeth Calark, 26 May 2009 - 08:26 PM.


#12 Lauri

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 08:33 PM

Well, I'd put a cent on two that Anakin's scar is to show that he's really been fighting a war here :lol:

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#13 Jeth Calark

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 08:38 PM

Hey, Nertea, was that Wars vs Trek site this one?

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#14 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 09:06 PM

I personally think that all SW canon should be based off of the Star Wars: Infinites graphic novels, simply because Leia becomes a Sith, Luke dies, and Yoda crashes the Death Justice Star into Coruscant, thus killing everyone there. :lol:
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#15 Jeth Calark

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Posted 26 May 2009 - 09:28 PM

Well, then it's a good thing no one is listening to you. :lol:

#16 Ed Of The 3rd Kind

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 03:46 AM

I personally think that all SW canon should be based off of the Star Wars: Infinites graphic novels, simply because Leia becomes a Sith, Luke dies, and Yoda crashes the Death Justice Star into Coruscant, thus killing everyone there. ;)


:lol: That's a bit nuts isn't it.... is that even a real series :) ;)

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#17 Rob38

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 04:13 AM

Gosh, you guys are really taking all this Star Wars stuff too seriously. :lol: I don't know what the hell you're talking about half the time. :) I personally do not think there is really anything that deep in Star Wars. It's just martial arts and kung fu masters (jedi) in space. ;)

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#18 Nertea

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 04:43 AM

Hey, Nertea, was that Wars vs Trek site this one?

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No that's the pro-trek one :lol:. stardestroyer.net is the place to go!

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#19 Annullus The Grey

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 08:51 AM

its the cannon order lucas statements as clarifications are the highest form of cannon such as his statements on equivilent power and the elk
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#20 Devon

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 07:37 PM

Gosh, you guys are really taking all this Star Wars stuff too seriously. :p I don't know what the hell you're talking about half the time. :) I personally do not think there is really anything that deep in Star Wars. It's just martial arts and kung fu masters (jedi) in space. :p



I tend to agree with you ;) A movie-based game would be better than an rts where every obscure character is included with ridiculous powers included by whatever author was tasked with creating that particular story.

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