11 replies to this topic

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

I had an idea regarding the jedi, whereby jedi would have 3 standard powers plus two optionable upgrades which would vary the roles of jedi within the mod. Just as different Jedi had different strenghts, so too do I think that Jedi units should also. For example we have seen three evidenced Jedi powers in the movies, everything else I'm dismissing for the simple reason that to me it doesn't feel in keeping with mainstream Star Wars.

So as an example of 3 standard powers we would have

1.Jedi Leap
2.Force Pull
3.Force Push

Plus two optionable upgrades/specialities where the last two buttons allow you to purchase an upgrade or a new power for your unit, this may be dependant on level also, dunno yet we've just been toying around with the idea but I definitely think it'd fairly cool.

Basically I want it so that players have to think in this mod, about the units and how they want them to specialise and upgrade, we have a few ideas in place, not sure whether or not they've been discussed out in the open about the force actively having an effect on the user so that the player has to be wise on when and how to use it. Star Wars battles will be alot more of an intellectualised affair with this system in my opinion, what are your thoughts/suggestions?

[Devon]

I think 2-3 standard powers for trainable Jedi would be good, as well as a randomized fourth one that's a little stronger. With hero-jedi, basic powers as will fit, but it's not really a big deal to remove them if we need more space.



And yeah, like I've already said, it's too complicated and doesn't really fit into either the feel of the game or gameplay very well at all. Most people wouldn't even know it was there and it would just get cumbersome, however good it sounds on paper. I'd prefer something simpler, just setting back the timers on all of the jedi's other powers when used. Take a look at the CaH wizard curse code, like Crusard mentioned.

[Annullus The Grey]

i see your argument yoda but think about it from my end the non curse based system would be so fun to try and make

what about mind trick ed all jedi have that and not all jedi have telekentic based powers but those who dont typically have cooler lightsabers

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

Ya, I forgot that one, although in the movies I think we only ever saw Obi Wan use it but I think it's pretty standard, we'll have to get a run down and see what sounds plausible in the scope of the movies. The idea of a toll on Jedi would be a killer to code but would definitely be awesome! Resetting timers would be good too, I'm not too bothered on either really just slightly biased in terms of it affecting them each in different ways again though that's probably alot more trouble than it's worth.

[Devon]

Personally I think it would just be really annoying. And then, there's nothing really like it all in the movies anyway

[Annullus The Grey]

but there needs to be some sort of fatigue, else we have a perfect systm and perfect systems are impossible ......

[Annullus The Grey]

me and yoda spents hours debating this till the wee hours of the morning (at least for me) and we have come up with a series of compromises. some force users like palpatine and dooku will instead of large cooldowns, pay costs to use thier force powers, this allows them to spam thier powers but the cost of doing so is columinative, thus the end effect of hulring about lightning, will be a weakening of armour and speed such that a single clone trooper could kill them

jedi like yoda instead will have time based cool downs this to represent the calm and paitence of the jedi.
off course the major implementations of the force will be more subtle and so there side effects will be more self explanatory, force heal being a meditation based power so the user cannot move defend or attack during the duration, but it is powerful enough to fully heal a hero.

that is more or less how the powers will work. or at least thats how they are projected to work

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

Isn't this what we had talked about doing initially anyway... seems to have come full circle

[Crusard]

New stuff and systems are always cool, so long they don't become weird

I like the idea of the negative (temporal?) attributemodifiers for the sith when they use powers, and cooldowns for jedi. However, I'm still not sure if the Curse behavior can work on the unit that causes it (the curse code normally needs an enemy target). I've also looked at Elrond's Restoration power which works differently, but it can only be used to recharge powers.

Ed's customizable Jedi system also sounds pretty cool. A lot of balancing would be needed unless we want everyone picking the same skills everytime.

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

That's something we would have to look into but we could do that with things like mapping, I hope that there will atleast be a few imbalanced maps in the mod, because it really grinds me when both sides of a map are pretty much identical, it just seems lazy. An imbalanced map in terms of height or water bodies might be the encouragement needed for people not to just focus on attack customs but also on recon etc. It's not really a fair point, I'm just saying it cos I love imbalanced maps as it just makes the win all the more satisfying.

It could also be offset by the health upgrades of other jedi so for the yings there would be yangs. So because there would only be two custom slots one for an upgrade and one for a speciality the player would really have to make a decision, on the one hand they could focus on attack and put in an attack upgrade, coupled with an attack power but that would mean their health would still be fairly minimal so they could be taken down with relative ease by those units that chose health upgrades.

The Sith Lords if we decide to do something along the lines of trainable Sith would focus more on negative attributes debuffers and on attack, in fact attack and offensive/stealthy strategies would be more important to the Sith considering they were unrevealed at the time of the prequels and it wasn't known to what depth they were involved with the CIS. Sith attacks would be of greater ferocity than Jedi so the attack buffs would be quite a bit greater than that of a jedi, however if a jedi were givent he appropriate upgrades they shouldn't have a problem counteracting it.

Edited by Ed Of The 3rd Kind, 15 June 2009 - 06:54 PM.

[Crusard]

Maps: Assymetrical doesn't necessarily mean unbalanced

Heroes: Keep in mind that even if we want heroes to "behave" similarily to the movies, this is a strategy game which needs a lot balancing.
A good way to do this is by assigning a strategical function to every hero.
In BFME some of the best designed heroes are: Lurtz, being a cheap unit which can kill most heroes if used correctly but can't handle troops too well; Gloin as an also cheap unit which is used against buildings; Theoden as a great buff provider for normal troops and cavalry; etc.

The customizable jedis sound really good to me. I'm guessing they're gonna be miscelaneous heroes named "Jedi" which can be recruited from the "fortress" like movie heroes. So there would be only one of these or maybe two or three?

[Ed Of The 3rd Kind]

Well I'm thinking of making some sort of Jedi training facility which would look somewhat similar to those temples we saw on Yavin and the Jedi Temple on Coruscant - it'll be a tough building cos it has to look somewhat in tune with its purpose.

The generic jedi are just units like every other, probably with a limited number allowed perhaps, depends on what the guys think whereas the Jedi Heroes as far as I know will have set powers but I'll have to check on that with Yoda_ & Annullus when I get a chance to msn