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Comparation: Contra 007 vs previous versions (006, 005, 004, 003).


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Poll: Please choose Contra version you like the most and compare it with 007.

Is Contra 007 better or worse than previous version of your choice?

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#1 Creator

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 08:46 AM

Please choose Contra version you like the most and compare it with 007.

Edited by Creator, 17 August 2009 - 08:47 AM.


#2 dcesarec

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:04 AM

I only dislike in this version ap bullet upgrade picture for usa drones and for chine infantry is the same...in 006 was for gla infantry also.
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#3 Flip1299

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 02:09 PM

I don't like the levitation pads for AFG, or his new airfield, but I did like the 006 design of his two airfields. Neither do I like the new pictures of the generals. I vastly prefer the balancing, bug fixes & AI of 007.

Edited by Flip1299, 17 August 2009 - 02:10 PM.

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#4 Madin

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 03:45 PM

Nothing will beat the step up in quality from 002 to 003.
Also In either 003 or 004 you had by far the best Nuke general design in Zero hour modding.
I still maintain that you should have balanced other generals 'up', instead of the Nuke general down.
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#5 Max-o-l1

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 04:04 PM

the only thing i dislike is that defenses don't detect stealth anymore, you need to place units to detect them but it's diffucult to keeep them from being blown up by something
still the best mod ever!
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#6 Creator

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 04:26 PM

Stealth detection system has been fully remade. Many defenses still detect stealth, but they detect different kind of stealth units. There are units which detect mines only, there are units which detect stealth infantry only, there are units which detect stealth aircrafts only and etc.

Browse the web site. There are unit, building and upgrade lists for each general. These lists describe stealth detectors too. For example, look at this:
http://contra.cncgui...t/ul_usaAFG.php
Stealth detection abilities are also explained in game. Just read unit descriptions.

Edited by Creator, 18 August 2009 - 04:28 PM.


#7 fieldwings

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:03 AM

Some problems I've noticed:

Making the Nuclear Storm available at Rank 3 is a bit too much, maybe move back to Rank 5 and reduce reload time to 10 minutes.
Crash damage could have been kept while solving the problem of multiple impacts against structures and trees. If interested in the solution (and it's quite simple), PM me.
Security Systems turrets can not be selected.
EVA superweapon events for the Superweapon General are all wonky... Particle Cannon events for the Tomahawk Storm and Blackout Missile System? What?
Is it possible to fix auto-select when another player calls the Spectre?
Game crashes randomly, but the AI no longer appears to be the culprit, it's more like during certain explosions if several sounds are called at once.

In certain situations these are game-breakers, but it's not that often. The biggest surprises for me is that I can play an 8-player AI game from start to finish without crashing or even lagging, and I was pleasantly surprised that dozers now just roll backwards from a newly constructed building instead of twisting and turning to find a new idle position.

Edited by fieldwings, 20 August 2009 - 05:29 AM.


#8 Max-o-l1

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 07:49 AM

one thing i've noticed yesterday is that SW General doesn't have a special mine removing unit, you need to use a sentry droid, and then force fire with a unit with area-effect. is it me or the game?
__________________________________________
A soldiers task is not do die for his country but to make the other bastard die for his...

System to come...
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COSMOS S
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Western Digital WD6402AAEX
+Custom watercooling

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#9 Creator

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:04 AM

Making the Nuclear Storm available at Rank 3 is a bit too much, maybe move back to Rank 5 and reduce reload time to 10 minutes.

Nuclear Storm at rank 5 was tested. It does not fit for 5th rank because of too long reload time. It was not needed there - players simply did not build it. Nuclear Storm at rank 3 is good enough and not overpowered at all. 12 minutes is enough for active players to reach rank 5, build super weapons and destroy Nuclear Storm a minute before it is activated.

Crash damage could have been kept while solving the problem of multiple impacts against structures and trees. If interested in the solution (and it's quite simple), PM me.

Multiple impact was not the only problem. This error also appered with ground units. Earth Shaker thrown them into air with its shockwave, they fell and exploded like a plane. And it also crippled balance - plane crash was good addition to normal bomb/missile damage. Thus it was removed because of whole set of reasons.

Security Systems turrets can not be selected.

Actially, not a bug. They are like drones. Drones can not be selected too.

Is it possible to fix auto-select when another player calls the Spectre?

Please describe it in details. I never saw this Spectre selection bug.

one thing i've noticed yesterday is that SW General doesn't have a special mine removing unit, you need to use a sentry droid, and then force fire with a unit with area-effect. is it me or the game?

There is mine detonation general's power. You start with this power purchased. And the same thing is for Air Force general.

Edited by Creator, 20 August 2009 - 09:05 AM.


#10 fieldwings

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:41 PM

Nuclear Storm at rank 3 is good enough and not overpowered at all.


That's all a matter of opinion. Another option is allowing the normal Nuclear Missile Silo at rank 3 and locking the 5-warheads upgrade until Rank 5, and having the Nuclear Storm at Rank 5 with a 10-minute reload, possibly even with the 5-warheads upgrade also available if you were ambitious enough; I tested adding the upgrade to the storm so it was effectively 65 nuclear missiles in one launch, and it was, as you could imagine, gloriously overpowered, to such a point where 2 of them fired at once would crash the game with a buffer overflow.

Multiple impact was not the only problem. This error also appered with ground units. Earth Shaker thrown them into air with its shockwave, they fell and exploded like a plane. And it also crippled balance - plane crash was good addition to normal bomb/missile damage. Thus it was removed because of whole set of reasons.


I see changing it for the sake of balance, but it still could have been there for Generals Powers aircraft and things like that. Crashing aircraft were never a game-breaker for me in any ZH mod, or even stock ZH.

Actially, not a bug. They are like drones. Drones can not be selected too.


It's a bit odd then, to have their health be visible.

Please describe it in details. I never saw this Spectre selection bug.


When another player or AI, whether ally or enemy, uses the Spectre power, it auto-selects the Spectre even though it's not yours, which intrudes on anything you're currently doing in the game (and it does get annoying if there are multiple USA players). I narrowed this issue to a script problem and wonder if it's possible to fix this as it's existed since ZH was first released.

#11 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 09:44 PM

I believe the Spectre bug is one of those unfixable ones linked to the uselessness of SAGE

#12 fieldwings

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 02:26 AM

I believe the Spectre bug is one of those unfixable ones linked to the uselessness of SAGE


Not quite. SAGE is far from useless and I did indirectly link the bug to the scripts that control the Spectre's non-combat behavior (which is the focus here). An easy but inconvenient fix is removing auto-select completely from the Spectre's creation script, but there has to be something more elaborate for just removing auto-select when it's not under your control.

#13 Creator

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 08:36 AM

That's all a matter of opinion. Another option is allowing the normal Nuclear Missile Silo at rank 3 and locking the 5-warheads upgrade until Rank 5, and having the Nuclear Storm at Rank 5 with a 10-minute reload, possibly even with the 5-warheads upgrade also available if you were ambitious enough; I tested adding the upgrade to the storm so it was effectively 65 nuclear missiles in one launch, and it was, as you could imagine, gloriously overpowered, to such a point where 2 of them fired at once would crash the game with a buffer overflow.

No, you don't understand. If nuclear missile is built at rank 3 then player can launch it at rank 3 or 4. It is overpowered. Nuclear Storm is completely different. Players always launch it at rank 5 even if they build it at rank 3. So, the fact that Nuclear Storm is available at rank 3 does not mean that you can use it at rank 3. It is like an investment into the future. You make this investment in the middle of game and get advantage in the end.

When another player or AI, whether ally or enemy, uses the Spectre power, it auto-selects the Spectre even though it's not yours, which intrudes on anything you're currently doing in the game (and it does get annoying if there are multiple USA players). I narrowed this issue to a script problem and wonder if it's possible to fix this as it's existed since ZH was first released.

Hmm... Then it is better to think up completely different logic for Spectre or replace it with another general's power. I'll solve it in next version.

#14 fieldwings

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:44 AM

No, you don't understand. If nuclear missile is built at rank 3 then player can launch it at rank 3 or 4. It is overpowered. Nuclear Storm is completely different. Players always launch it at rank 5 even if they build it at rank 3. So, the fact that Nuclear Storm is available at rank 3 does not mean that you can use it at rank 3. It is like an investment into the future. You make this investment in the middle of game and get advantage in the end.


Thanks for clearing that up.


Hmm... Then it is better to think up completely different logic for Spectre or replace it with another general's power. I'll solve it in next version.


I'm not sure what other logic exists that provides its normal functions. If you can solve it while keeping it the same for the most part, that's great.

#15 Casojin

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 07:19 AM

The new stealth detection system makes me a bit confused. It makes the game more realistic yet it takes some time to adjust to it.
The Specter Gunship is a little bit disappointing for me as it was already easy to kill and flying in from almost the farthest reach of the map (my base) is not a good idea for such a weak unit. But I think it's ok since the superweapons' firepower seem to be reduced as well.

Anyway, I'm still waiting to try it in multiplayer as soon as my ZH gang is ready once again. More comment will come later.
Nice work, Creator. :p
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#16 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 09:21 AM

the thing i really hate is the doubled building armor from 006.
005 was the best.
good work anyway

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:53 PM

I can only think of a few things that should probably be changed. for instance China Signal Mines. that is the only method in the chinese abilities that allows a similar effect to the satellite/drone for USA and the Radar Vans upgradable ability. I don't think we should have to use a Generals ability to achieve the same effect from China.

Also, i don't know if anyone noticed this. But the flame general is terrible to play, fun, but terrible. I can't fathom why we need to manually click the interface to get a unit to use its anti armour flame instead of regular. Also needs a good anti tank unit. I find that especially against the Tank general flame performs terribly.

A serious case of overpowering with tank generals too. I put two tanks on the same team, chances are its me and them at the end. usually after i've been pommeled with nukes. lol But then, that might be because i show a complete disregard for the tournament option.

And as for game crashes, i only really get them when i've played too long, but i've noticed some frequency in crashes on some maps. Hostile Dawn (6 player) is notorious for my crashes.

And i agree with that Nuclear Storm argument, I've had enemies build them (had four at one stage) And its just a manner of strategy. rank 3 is more than suitable for it.

I'd have to say though. With the SW general, could you prehaps make one of the rank 5 SW available in rank 4? Spread them out a little? Just seems like an aweful lot of tech available in rank 5 and not a hell of a lot in rank 3. AI's usually go down without a fuss. unlike they did in 006. Which doesn't add up since nothing has been shuffled around for SW.


Also another one of those things, i'm pretty sure this has always been there. even on the original. But it always gets a laugh from me when i see airfields built in the water or other building build on top of one another. lol


Anyway. Great job, can't wait for the next one. ^_^

#18 Creator

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 06:20 PM

Also, i don't know if anyone noticed this. But the flame general is terrible to play, fun, but terrible. I can't fathom why we need to manually click the interface to get a unit to use its anti armour flame instead of regular. Also needs a good anti tank unit. I find that especially against the Tank general flame performs terribly.

First of all, he has Battle Masters and Tank Hunters, which are early anti tank units. They can be upgraded with Thermite Shells since the very beginning. This upgrade is available at War Factory. Thermite Shells increase Tank Hunter and Battle Master firepower and unlock new attack mode for Inferno Cannon. So, you need to manually click the button for Inferno Cannon only. It is not as terrible as you imagine. And by the way, Fuel Tube can help against tank too.

When you hit rank 3, Immolators and ECM upgrade become available. It gives you very good antitank capabilities. Build Immolator, equip it with Battle Bunker and put tank hunters or ECM troopers there. You can also mix them: to say, 2 ECM + 3 Tank Hunters.

When you reach rank 5, you get the best Flame general upgrage - Thermobaric Mixtures. It increases antitank capabilities of many units: A-100, Inferno, MiG-35, Iron Fist and even Flamethrower. Upgraded A-100 can be serious threat for ant tank force.

And as for game crashes, i only really get them when i've played too long, but i've noticed some frequency in crashes on some maps. Hostile Dawn (6 player) is notorious for my crashes.

What do you mean? Do you have disconnect during multiplayer game or unexpected exit to Windows during skirmish?

A serious case of overpowering with tank generals too. I put two tanks on the same team, chances are its me and them at the end.

It can seem because of AI features. AI plays better for some generals and worse for some others. In addition, AI has infitite money and faster rank gaining speed.

I'd have to say though. With the SW general, could you prehaps make one of the rank 5 SW available in rank 4? Spread them out a little? Just seems like an aweful lot of tech available in rank 5 and not a hell of a lot in rank 3. AI's usually go down without a fuss. unlike they did in 006. Which doesn't add up since nothing has been shuffled around for SW.

Rank 3 unlocks:
- 1 superweapon (Particle Cannon)
- 2 defense structures (Cyclone and SSM)
- 3 units (Burton, Sniper, Energy Shield)
- 8 upgrades
- 1 tech building (Strategy Center)
- 1 ability (CIA Intelligency)
Total: 16 things.

Rank 5 unlocks:
- 2 superweapons (ICBM, Blackout)
- 1 defense structure (SDI Cannon)
- 1 unit (Aurora)
- 2 upgrades (MOAB, EMP)
Total: 6 things.

Also another one of those things, i'm pretty sure this has always been there. even on the original. But it always gets a laugh from me when i see airfields built in the water or other building build on top of one another. lol

Actually, it is major Zero Hour AI bug and can not be fixed anyhow.

Anyway. Great job, can't wait for the next one. :p

Thanks.

Edited by Creator, 21 September 2009 - 06:21 PM.


#19 Guest_Guest_Paladin_*_*

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Posted 22 September 2009 - 10:54 AM

First of all, he has Battle Masters and Tank Hunters, which are early anti tank units. They can be upgraded with Thermite Shells since the very beginning. This upgrade is available at War Factory. Thermite Shells increase Tank Hunter and Battle Master firepower and unlock new attack mode for Inferno Cannon. So, you need to manually click the button for Inferno Cannon only. It is not as terrible as you imagine. And by the way, Fuel Tube can help against tank too.

When you hit rank 3, Immolators and ECM upgrade become available. It gives you very good antitank capabilities. Build Immolator, equip it with Battle Bunker and put tank hunters or ECM troopers there. You can also mix them: to say, 2 ECM + 3 Tank Hunters.

When you reach rank 5, you get the best Flame general upgrage - Thermobaric Mixtures. It increases antitank capabilities of many units: A-100, Inferno, MiG-35, Iron Fist and even Flamethrower. Upgraded A-100 can be serious threat for ant tank force.


Yeah true, i dunno, maybe its just a matter of perspective. Not my preferred general to play at any rate. :p
Like some of the concepts with his weaps and abilities though. good fun seeing how many fuel tubes you can set off at once.

What do you mean? Do you have disconnect during multiplayer game or unexpected exit to Windows during skirmish?


Just the ordinary Error message....the one that says the programme closed unexpectedly. this could be due to overheated hardware, min specs etc.

Always does it, and i know min specs are fine, no overheating occuring and deinitely no viruses.

It can seem because of AI features. AI plays better for some generals and worse for some others. In addition, AI has infitite money and faster rank gaining speed.


Yeah i was aware of the bonuses, just seems that a double team of AI tank gen survives to the finish. Doesn't worry me, bit annoying having to always end up fighting tank gen (when they pop up). Poor AI GLA generals don't stand a chance once Tank hits rank 3. lol Kinda funny to watch really...

Rank 3 unlocks:
- 1 superweapon (Particle Cannon)
- 2 defense structures (Cyclone and SSM)
- 3 units (Burton, Sniper, Energy Shield)
- 8 upgrades
- 1 tech building (Strategy Center)
- 1 ability (CIA Intelligency)
Total: 16 things.

Rank 5 unlocks:
- 2 superweapons (ICBM, Blackout)
- 1 defense structure (SDI Cannon)
- 1 unit (Aurora)
- 2 upgrades (MOAB, EMP)
Total: 6 things.


Ah yeah, sorry, mustn't have been paying much attention. lol

#20 Thats me!

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:35 PM

For me 005 was the best.




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