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truth, or lie?


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#1 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 08:10 AM

"I always lie"

Is it a lie or the truth?

"I reject your reality and substitute my own" -Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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#2 Bart

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 10:36 AM

It cannot be the truth, because then you always lie, so it must be a lie.
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#3 Beowulf

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 08:51 PM

But it can't be that since if he always lies, the statement would technically be true. But the statement itself creates a paradox so the real answer is neither.

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#4 Bart

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 10:35 PM

No, it's just a lie :thumbsupsmiley:
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#5 Ring o' Fate

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 10:45 PM

If it's a lie, that means he DOESN'T lie. Which contradicts itself.
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#6 Bart

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 10:54 PM

If it's a lie, that means he DOESN'T lie.

Nope, if it's a lie, it means he doesn't always lie (but he can still lie at times).

Trust me, I've thought this over in my head many times in the approx. 15 years that I have been able to think up stuff like this :thumbsupsmiley:
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#7 Pasidon

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 04:24 AM

"I always lie"

Is it a lie or the truth?

http://anomalyblog.b...ar-paradox.html

In the episode "I, Mudd" (Episode #41) of the original Star Trek series, Captain Kirk and Harry Mudd use the liar paradox to confuse and thus incapacitate an android who is holding the landing party captive.


Dunno if that answers anything...

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#8 Vortigern

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:08 AM

Nah, it's rubbish. 'Sometimes lies' is the answer. It's not a paradox if there's an answer.
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#9 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 10:26 AM

Yeah, once people had a little discussion over it i was going to point that out myself if it hadn't already come up.

However if you take the scenario at the face value of 'must be one or the other, can't be sometimes' then its a cool paradox.

Sorta like the grandfather paradox.
For those who don't know what that is:
You create a time machine and go back in time, and accidentally kill your grandfather.
Therefore your father isn't born, therefore you aren't born,
therefore you don't go back and kill your grandfather,
therefore your father is born, therefore you are born
therefore you go back and kill your grandfather...
*continue endless loop*


I actually saw an interesting answer to how nature might deal with a paradox such as this, which is that if you go back you go back into an alternate reality. Because in your original time line you never went back and changed anything. So killing your grandfather wouldn't result in an effect on you, it would only effect the alternate reality version of you, thus no paradox.

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#10 Vortigern

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:18 AM

Or the Futurama solution, which is to become your own grandfather. :thumbsupsmiley:
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#11 Bart

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 11:24 AM

I actually saw an interesting answer to how nature might deal with a paradox such as this, which is that if you go back you go back into an alternate reality. Because in your original time line you never went back and changed anything. So killing your grandfather wouldn't result in an effect on you, it would only effect the alternate reality version of you, thus no paradox.


There are two solutions to this problem which are scientifically plausible:
- You cannot kill your grandfather. Whatever you try, it never happened. You cannot change the past. If you go back in time and do something, this means that it was already done when you went back in the first place. (like time traveling in Lost: whatever happened, happened)
- You can change anything, but this will create an alternate future (as in the quote), like in Back to the Future. This is also means that time travel will be a tricky thing, because you cannot go back and save the world. You can only leave it to go to another one. The people you leave behind still get to keep the fucked up world and they also permanently lose you. In the new world there will be two of you (if you don't kill your grandfather, and you still get born).
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#12 Rattuskid

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 05:46 PM

'I always lie'. Is a lie, and this is merely conferring through logic that you do not always lie, however this doesn't exclude you from lying.

Old star trek tricks are dumb, liar.
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#13 {IRS}Athos

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 01:34 AM

The lying paradox actually involves two people. Let's say that their names are Bob and Fred.

Bob: Fred always lies.
Fred: Bob is right.

Something like that. :shiftee2:
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#14 Elvenlord

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 01:49 AM

This statement is a lie.

There you go :shiftee2:

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#15 mike_

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 01:54 AM

Hell if I know, but the cake is a lie.



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#16 some_weirdGuy

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 09:06 AM

I remember this show called 'samurai jack' and there was a monster with two heads, one head always lied the other always told the truth, or something quite similar, and you had to cut off one of them to kill it but not the other, or something.

Ok, i did type up a big confused post, but then i found the quote, so I'll just post that instead:

Jack: [Is only allowed one question to decide which of the two worms is the "magic" worm, armed only with the knowledge that one tells the truth and the other lies] If you were your brother, which one would you say was the magic worm?
Worm #2: Which one are you asking?
Jack: It doesn't matter.
Worm #2: Hmmm. That's easy. It's him!
Worm #1: Of course! It's me!
Jack: Then I choose *you*.
[chooses Worm #2 instead]
Worm #1: He knows!
Worm #2: What makes you choose me? I told you it was him!
Worm #1: Yes, me!
Jack: If you were the truth-telling one then what you said would be a lie because you will answer truthfully what your lying brother will say. Therefore I can safely say that the answer will be the opposite of what you say. On the other hand if you were the lying worm then you will tell me what your truth-telling brother will say but it would be a lie, therefore the answer will also be the opposite of what you say. Understand?


See, its like one of those twisting confusing word puzzles, and although its a cartoon and so not real its still a clever solution to the riddle :shiftee2:

"I reject your reality and substitute my own" -Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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#17 Team Black

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 10:42 PM

No one could ever live their entire lives and lie with every breath of your mouth.. Therefore "I always lie" must be a lie.

When practicality is applied, the paradox dissolves :p

Edited by Team Black, 01 September 2009 - 10:43 PM.


#18 Pasidon

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 02:45 AM

I remember this show called 'samurai jack'

YES! Epic awesomeness show right there. :w00t:

But was Jack right?

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#19 True Lord of Chaos

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 02:49 AM

I think he was, although I don't really remember the shows. It was great, though :w00t:

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#20 Elvenlord

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 02:52 AM

Yes. Yes he is.

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