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#61 Creator

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 12:30 PM

-in fight flame vs nuke (all battles are considered as me vs casojin),i have sneaked arround enemys whole base with black lotus,it was hard work,and very good planed.But,cash stealing gave me just 1000 $,and i captured tech center but nothing to do with that,he just recaptured back.So my attack did not do anything.I suggest that standard buildings (as suply stash,war factory and barracks)could be sell.I know your oppinion about selling things but this is key when attacking with black lotus,or when you lost all money and you desperate need some,just to build one chinook to continue gather resources.

First of all, Black Lotus cash stealing ability was remade. She steals cash regulary: click ability button, click target building - and she will steal resources until killed or stopped manually. Thus, you can steal much more than $1000 without micro management.

And then, Supply Centers and Power Plants have selfdestruct ability. You can capture them and order to selfdestruct.

-this is about cyber gen,in fight cyber vs tank,my whole army lost because two ecm tanks.In this fight i can only use long range units (which are slow and not accurate)and pegasus(which are not accurate too,need to go back and reload...),basically i am forced to fight with support units.Lost is guaranteed from the beginning unless opponent is not hardcore stupid.Getting rank 3 and upgrades is not able in such fight.And chinooks was not able to carry my forces in enemy base,you can just sit and wait.

ECM tanks never caused too much trouble for cyber general. AMOS and cyborgs are not effected by ECM field. You can use them against ECMs and attack with drones later. But there are some more play styles. For example, good players use hit-&-run tactics for him the following way: drones close to enemy, fire TOWs and flash missiles and go back instantly avoiding close combat. Yet another way is to avoid enemy army in general: move around enemy base, search for weak point and attack it.

-in fight demo vs cyber,i suggest that gla worker dont build mines any more.He is fast,and cost 200,and you can build him right when battle start,that gives so much advantage,i mean,with other factions you need build power plant first to getting something,and another dozes for 1000.I suggest Explosive Engineer,like in real combat,one human has equip he needed.So he would be able to place all kind of mines for demo gen.Could be stealthed,and on bike.

Come on, cyber general has the best mine detonator in game which is available from the start.

Edited by Creator, 15 October 2009 - 12:31 PM.


#62 dcesarec

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 01:41 PM

-in fight flame vs nuke (all battles are considered as me vs casojin),i have sneaked arround enemys whole base with black lotus,it was hard work,and very good planed.But,cash stealing gave me just 1000 $,and i captured tech center but nothing to do with that,he just recaptured back.So my attack did not do anything.I suggest that standard buildings (as suply stash,war factory and barracks)could be sell.I know your oppinion about selling things but this is key when attacking with black lotus,or when you lost all money and you desperate need some,just to build one chinook to continue gather resources.

First of all, Black Lotus cash stealing ability was remade. She steals cash regulary: click ability button, click target building - and she will steal resources until killed or stopped manually. Thus, you can steal much more than $1000 without micro management.

And then, Supply Centers and Power Plants have selfdestruct ability. You can capture them and order to selfdestruct.

-this is about cyber gen,in fight cyber vs tank,my whole army lost because two ecm tanks.In this fight i can only use long range units (which are slow and not accurate)and pegasus(which are not accurate too,need to go back and reload...),basically i am forced to fight with support units.Lost is guaranteed from the beginning unless opponent is not hardcore stupid.Getting rank 3 and upgrades is not able in such fight.And chinooks was not able to carry my forces in enemy base,you can just sit and wait.

ECM tanks never caused too much trouble for cyber general. AMOS and cyborgs are not effected by ECM field. You can use them against ECMs and attack with drones later. But there are some more play styles. For example, good players use hit-&-run tactics for him the following way: drones close to enemy, fire TOWs and flash missiles and go back instantly avoiding close combat. Yet another way is to avoid enemy army in general: move around enemy base, search for weak point and attack it.



-in fight demo vs cyber,i suggest that gla worker dont build mines any more.He is fast,and cost 200,and you can build him right when battle start,that gives so much advantage,i mean,with other factions you need build power plant first to getting something,and another dozes for 1000.I suggest Explosive Engineer,like in real combat,one human has equip he needed.So he would be able to place all kind of mines for demo gen.Could be stealthed,and on bike.

Come on, cyber general has the best mine detonator in game which is available from the start.


-Selfdestruct takes too long but ok.
-Hit and run tactic does not work because TOW missiles wont get trough ecm field
-Go arround base is not possible if ECM tanks stays on few check points
-Mine detonator is ok, im not talking about that, im talking about Workers ability, you can in the beginning sneak in enemy base and deploy some mines...but ok...your deccision.
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#63 Arcadian Daze

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 02:25 PM

i think ai ranks up yto fast
i play against insase nuke(only one coz i'm noob) he sends his first attack and i have 3 options
1: garrison buildings and get tem cleard by irradiators wich causes him to get rank 2
2: build defenses wich stops all of his units but leaves the howitzers stating so he can destroy most of them before my counter forces arrives them IF they arrive causing him to get rank 2 OR 3
3: build a counterforce wich tears down his attack but gets him to rank 2

no matter what i do he always gets rank 2 at his first attack
now rank 2 aint a problem but after his second he gains rank 3 wich results in me losing when he sends his 4th of 5th attack
now i know imma noob and (not sure tho) nuke is the most challenging opponment if you turtle in

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#64 Casojin

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 03:31 PM

To dcesarec,
- Demo is nerfed by weak units.
- Many units require replacement after used (suicide).
- Mine clearing is easy in Contra

Hit and run tactic does not work because TOW missiles wont get trough ecm field

Plain hit & run is possible but hard to do if the match has lag time. I suggest you build a strong point to retreat your hit & run units back there (patriot and some missile inf against tank rush). ECM would deviate missile but if you have multiple missiles, they tend to spread the damage around anyway. Use Missile Cyborgs to help fighting off ECM from a strong point. This might help a bit.

To Arcadian Daze,
- First of all, AI gains rank faster than human and also has unlimited money.
- Second, the basic principle of how to fight in Contra is written in the first page of this topic. Those strategies can solve your problem but you need some skill and training to implement them. So, keep it up. :)
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#65 dcesarec

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 04:30 PM

To dcesarec,
- Demo is nerfed by weak units.
- Many units require replacement after used (suicide).
- Mine clearing is easy in Contra

Hit and run tactic does not work because TOW missiles wont get trough ecm field

Plain hit & run is possible but hard to do if the match has lag time. I suggest you build a strong point to retreat your hit & run units back there (patriot and some missile inf against tank rush). ECM would deviate missile but if you have multiple missiles, they tend to spread the damage around anyway. Use Missile Cyborgs to help fighting off ECM from a strong point. This might help a bit.



Dude...ive just fighted you today using cyborg units. Droids dont have range to damage ECM tank without beeing shut down. Missiles are deviated, i need 5 missiles cyborgs to get one not deviated and hit the target....what do you think, how much money do i have in the beginning to do that and make a "strong" point? Regular cyborgs with machine gun, i had 7 of those (i get them while buidlings are destroyed), they didnt destroyed ECM tank even after 1 minute of shooting. You destroyed my base (be avare that this was the early game) with 2 dragon tanks, two gaitling tanks and 2 ztz tanks...My units was useless...Maybe next itme you could use cyborg against me using tank gen...i would like to see what are the tactics i should learn in opposite case.
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#66 Creator

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:38 PM

-Selfdestruct takes too long but ok.
-Hit and run tactic does not work because TOW missiles wont get trough ecm field
-Go arround base is not possible if ECM tanks stays on few check points
-Mine detonator is ok, im not talking about that, im talking about Workers ability, you can in the beginning sneak in enemy base and deploy some mines...but ok...your deccision.

1. Delfdestruction time was set to give a chance to recapture building.
2. As for TOWs, yes, they don't get through ECM field. But if you use many drones, TOWs scatter and damage many targets in wide area. And you can always support your drones with AMOS, which is not effected by ECM.
3. As for GLA workers, I agree. They get mines too early and can put them right on your base. Mines must require Barracks or Arms Delaer. I'll change prerequisites.

Dude...ive just fighted you today using cyborg units....

Ah, this situation is familiar to me. The mod always seems unbalanced for the person who have lost a battle. But I have a suggestion. If you get defeated then suggest your opponent to switch sides. For example, you played as cyber general, he played as tank general and you lost because of ECM tanks. Suggest him to play as cyber and choose tank general yourself. Build those ECM tanks, copy his play style and look what he will do. If he losts then it is time to talk about balance. If he wins then it is time to level up your strategy and tactics skills.

I watched many replays and noticed that Casojin is more experienced than you. Thus, your loss does not mean disbalance yet. I strongly recommend to play "mirror matches" with side switching and strategy copying. RULES: Looser must copy winner's strategy, winner is allowed to anything.

Edited by Creator, 15 October 2009 - 06:54 PM.


#67 ApOcOlYpS

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:51 PM

Creator dcesarec already suggested switching sides. And, one problem with loser has to copy winners strategy...Anyone else want to try microing a large squad of F-18s? Admittedly I need to get better at that myself, but it gets the point across. Also if you know what your enemy will use you have a knowledge advantage, though no more than if you simply knew your opponent I suppose.

#68 dcesarec

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 05:55 AM

I didnt suggested anything because i lost.I have lost many battles cause Casojin is more experienced than me and i got nothing to hide,im not competitive. But this "problem" is really big,at least one regular unit should not be affected by ecm field.By regular i mean it can harm tanks and would not be shut down.By now this unit is only Amos.Amos is not accurate,you just can move right next to him and destroy him.Imagine this,you and opponent start with 10 000,build the sam things,and now you have war factory and 2000 money.Your enemy will build one Ecm,Ztz and Dragon tank.So what will you?2 Amos?Air field?3 drones without Tow upgrade,which will be shut down without even fired?Missile cyborgs which missiles will be deviated and Dragon tanks firewall would burn them in sec?I really think this thing is so much advantage for against cyborgs.Ive lost many battles playing as cyborg,because my less experience and some errors,but every time i did some damage to enemy,in this case,i could only watch...Sure we play mirror match,i hope so.
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#69 Casojin

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 06:39 AM

To dcesarec, I am about to suggest we switch sides. I can think a few thing when playing Cyber. The strong point I suggest is Patriot with missile infantries. The pat will draw fire while your missile cyborgs shoot your enemy. Concentrate on ECM first then strike with drone. If there is AMOS help protecting, you'll have a better chance to fight.

To Apoc, I don't use more than 5 F18s or else it will be hard to control. I use technique written in Contra web. I use them to defend against vehicles and supplement with MCVs and Humvees+TOW. Comanche could finish any vehicle once AA is taken care of. Use Patriot to create a strong point to retreat your units. I suggest you watch the first replay of me vs dcesarec (AF vs Stealth).
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#70 dcesarec

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 07:18 AM

Yes Casojin,with patriot you maybe have some chance,but maybe.Dont forget that in early game you would be able to build only one such strong point,what if i go arround your base?You cant make 2 such strong points.Starting with 10 000,while you build one more dozer,suply building,power plant and war factory,one patriot and one amos you would be low with cash,so you gonna need to choose where to put patriot and amos.And im gonna sneak arround,its just...i dont know,maybe the hardest battle.Its easyer to play infantry vs toxin than this.
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#71 Creator

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 07:24 AM

And, one problem with loser has to copy winners strategy...Anyone else want to try microing a large squad of F-18s?

It is not hard at all. Everything is written on the web site.
http://contra.cncgui...ts_aviation.php

Admittedly I need to get better at that myself, but it gets the point across. Also if you know what your enemy will use you have a knowledge advantage, though no more than if you simply knew your opponent I suppose.

The point is to let your enemy to think up countermeasures for his previous strategy, remember it and use these countermeasures against him later.

#72 Arcadian Daze

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 12:54 PM

To dcesarec,
To Arcadian Daze,
- First of all, AI gains rank faster than human and also has unlimited money.
- Second, the basic principle of how to fight in Contra is written in the first page of this topic. Those strategies can solve your problem but you need some skill and training to implement them. So, keep it up. :p

i know all the generals rank up eaually but the main problem lies in the nuke tank hunters

if i send a counterforce it gets blasted to shreds in no-time by those bastards
i tried right about anything but... i doesnt help i have this problem when playing agaisnt nuke only

oh and if i can get my online conntectoin to work i'd like a tutor match if possible
(i cant accept my defeat very well and thus i'm not feeling like losing 20 times before can start winning)

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#73 Casojin

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 04:25 PM

Nuke Tank Hunter has a lot of firepower but is also very weak. Moving your fast anti-infantry vehicle around as quickly as possible. You can supplementing this with artillery.
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#74 Casojin

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 07:17 PM

I've demonstrated to dcesarec about Cyber vs Tank.
These two replays show the tactics I used against his combined tank and ECM.
The first game, he didn't use sniper cannon while the second one added challenge to my ability.
NOTE: Leech is a very effective way to stall him.

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#75 Arcadian Daze

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 09:37 PM

Nuke Tank Hunter has a lot of firepower but is also very weak. Moving your fast anti-infantry vehicle around as quickly as possible. You can supplementing this with artillery.


but i always play chine wich has very bad anti inf6t capability
also with gla or usa the technicals and humvees get destroyed in one blast
and coz the AI sends about 30 nukehunters each attack it will need about 20 humvees/technicals wich wil get him tp rise halfway rank 4
and if you keep in mind that at rank 3 he always uses artillery barrage wich decimates half of my force coz i cant move them away quick enough that he gains rank 4 or 5 the next attack

ps: i CAN beat him but only playng with nuke and on a map with a good amount of buildings

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#76 Casojin

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 07:17 AM

If they come in large group, retreat your force and use artillery. Also, note that you should attack them away from your base or you won't have any place to retreat to. Damage their front rank to slow them down and retreat your artillery. If necessary, sacrifice a few units to slow them down while retreating your artillery.
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#77 dcesarec

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 09:42 AM

Well Creator Casojin showed me how to fight with cyborg against tank gen.
Casojin, i analyzed our battle, i had a key moment to get victory, in second rush (in rematch) when i destroyed your 2 chinooks and attacked the rest of your chinooks with gaitling tank i let my tank get destroyed. In replay i saw you had 500 cash and if your chinooks get destroyed, your eceonomy would be also...but...i learn from my mistakes.
And one thing too, you killed 45 of my units and get rank 3 and i with 60 of yours still at rank 2. I know,some of mine cost much and get more experience but anyway...it was fun to look, the first battle you didnt rush on my base, i was at your.
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#78 Thats me!

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 01:11 PM

Creator,i think the last few posts shall be moved to sugg. Thread!

also cyber gen biggest proplem is nuke crusher,cos one of them can kill like 5 drones with one shot,so when you see them,retreat.

#79 Casojin

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 04:28 PM

also cyber gen biggest proplem is nuke crusher,cos one of them can kill like 5 drones with one shot,so when you see them,retreat.

AMOS can destroy it if used correctly. You wanna try a match with me?
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#80 Creator

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 06:16 PM

but i always play chine wich has very bad anti inf6t capability
also with gla or usa the technicals and humvees get destroyed in one blast
and coz the AI sends about 30 nukehunters each attack it will need about 20 humvees/technicals wich wil get him tp rise halfway rank 4

Did you try to use artillery against them?

also cyber gen biggest proplem is nuke crusher,cos one of them can kill like 5 drones with one shot,so when you see them,retreat.

Sentry drones upgraded with Flash missiles can destroy those guys staying out of their attack range. But you need careful micro management to do it.




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