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#21 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 03:52 AM

I wasn't even able to get myself to watch the Holiday Special entirely. Just the short clips I saw were the most cringe-worthy godawful things I've ever seen.

Yeah, don't get me wrong - it's still the worst example of commercial exploitation ever. I'm just saying it's done a few decent things for the canon.

George Lucas claimed it will be more mature, if so, perhaps it can save Star Wars' reputation to the general public, which would be good.

I'm hopeful it'll be more about that "Rise of the Rebellion" story arc that was cut from RotS - you know, our whole premise :p. If Garm is one of the characters, I might just forget that Jar Jar ever happened :thumbsupsmiley:...

Meh you should just read my deviantART journal rant I made the other day, about how I feel about Star Wars:

I have to say, I really, really don't like Doug Chiang's work. McQuarrie should get a statue at Skywalker Ranch.

Meh I don't care for the Dressellians, bland looking.

I wasn't really thinking about appearances so much as value to the Rebellion and relative misfortune in the EU. Certainly the Mon Cal and Bothans were the most powerful, since they controlled independent space, but the others barely even have a single notable member of their species (save for Etahn A'baht).

I have to ask though: what's your opinion of the Dug?

#22 Casen

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Posted 23 September 2009 - 04:08 AM

Yeah, don't get me wrong - it's still the worst example of commercial exploitation ever. I'm just saying it's done a few decent things for the canon.

No arguments there.

I'm hopeful it'll be more about that "Rise of the Rebellion" story arc that was cut from RotS - you know, our whole premise :p. If Garm is one of the characters, I might just forget that Jar Jar ever happened :thumbsupsmiley:...

The problem is as of now the average person seems to have a negative opinion on Star Wars in general nowadays so they may not give it a chance. If the TV show turns out to be a flop then it's just a nail in the coffin for Star Wars. =/

I have to say, I really, really don't like Doug Chiang's work. McQuarrie should get a statue at Skywalker Ranch.

Agreed. The prequel ships have this dumb rounded Star Trek-ish feel to them that doesn't feel like Star Wars at all. I get more Star Wars vibes looking at Battlestar Galactica ships than I do looking at most of the ships invented for the prequels.

I wasn't really thinking about appearances so much as value to the Rebellion and relative misfortune in the EU. Certainly the Mon Cal and Bothans were the most powerful, since they controlled independent space, but the others barely even have a single notable member of their species (save for Etahn A'baht).

I suppose, I guess I just like cool aliens...rubber forhead aliens I'm just sick and tired of. Ever seen Babylon 5? I can't stop laughing at that show, it's literally worse than Star Trek in that regard.

Or try the Bajoran's in Star Trek as well...all they have is a few notches on their nose, and they evolved on a planet light years away from earth. Every time a Trekkie claims Star Trek is more realistic than Star Wars I cringe. Near-Human aliens in Star Wars, such as Chiss, are descended from human colonists from a long time ago. There's actually a sensible explanation in the Star Wars universe for such things. In Star Trek they just have some stupid explanation in one TNG ep where aliens "seeded" planets with humanoid genes or some crap, and it was never fucking elaborated on again. Obviously it was made up just to reconcile realism and for that sake only.

I have to ask though: what's your opinion of the Dug?

I have to fucking admit, they're pretty badass, even if they first appeared in the shittiest prequel.

#23 Reedek

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 10:12 PM

Sorry for long ago quote, but couldn't help but to reply to this

That has all of the excitement of watching C-SPAN. Wouldn't a 15-minute flashback at the beginning of AotC have sufficed?

:p That is just classic....

although if you consider that he set in motion a chain of events that would one day lead to Karen Traviss, maybe that was a bad thing ...

That name needs to be banned from the world....

I guess I would've preferred the first movie to start with some history of how Palpatine became a Sith, you know what I mean?

I think George Lucas didn't want Palpatine to be known as the Sith until the 3rd movie to viewers who hadn't watched the trilogy

Edited by Reedek, 26 September 2009 - 10:13 PM.


#24 Nertea

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 01:35 AM

Mmm, I would kill for a sim on the same level as TIE Fighter. It's one of those games which has, as far as I'm concerned, no flaws :p. The 30-ish simultaneous craft limit might be considered one, but it helps frame the game and it's more of a tech limitation. Game had great gameplay, a soild difficulty, excellent voice/music work, an amazing amount of gameplay hours, and a really nice story and ending (both the original and expansions). I loved that whole "Now, we must wait for news of the Emperor's victory at Endor" bit to end the game. No sequel required. I wouldn't mind finding out what happened to Steele after the game, seeing how he was one of the top Imperial pilots in the galaxy apparently. He showed up in one paragraph in the new series... something about him being present at the ridiculous event on kessel. Considering how the writers are doing now, I'd rather not let them decide though.

I mean, has anyone read the Fate of the Jedi stuff? I grabbed the first one about a month ago and was so horrified that I actually have no intention of reading the rest. And I slogged through the last couple YV books and all of Legacy without too many ugh moments. Lot of prequel bashing (which I wholeheartedly agree with) here, but it's looking like the golden age of any pre or post ROTJ EU is long over from my perspective.

I thought that with Traviss not writing, we might have escaped a storyline based around jedi-hate and stuff. Apparently not. Now it seems to be jedi vs the media and the popular opinion of the NR. Oops, I mean GA. Not what I read these books for.

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#25 SpardaSon21

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 01:57 AM

I don't mind the Jedi hate. To me it injects a bit of grayness into Star Wars much like KotOR2 did. I'm tired of the Jedi being constantly right and all-knowing.

#26 Dr. Nick

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 03:38 AM

The Jedi hate isn't the problem for me. It's the repetitiveness of the plot and the lousy writing that ruin the newer EU books for me. Add in the Clone Wars cartoon and some lousy games, and you've completely killed my interest in Star Wars. (Apart from the new Thrawn book from Zahn)
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#27 Tropical Bob

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 04:14 AM

I think the New Jedi Order was kind of the end of the good stuff. End of story. Most anything else coming out now will probably be trash.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 27 September 2009 - 04:16 AM.


#28 Nertea

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:52 AM

I don't mind the Jedi hate. To me it injects a bit of grayness into Star Wars much like KotOR2 did. I'm tired of the Jedi being constantly right and all-knowing.

It's not the Jedi hatred per se, which is why I could tolerate Traviss, who obviously just has a problem with them. The new series is just executing it in a very err... "real-world" manner. Here at least half the storyline involves the protagonists fighting the government - but not really, the Jedi are fighting the media who are running a smear campaign as the arm of the government. It comes off as either some kind of rant about how our (real-world) society treats celebrities or a thinly veiled criticism of mass media. Either way, it feels too influenced by real events instead of being off in a galaxy far far away. The media have never played more than a minuscule role in any of the EU beforehand that I've read.

The silly part is that evidently they're just building up for the Jedi to be kicked out of the NR or marginalized, then some horrible new threat (guessing New Sith from those couple chapters of Legacy) will rear its head and the Jedi will come back and save the day - back to status quo.

Tropical Bob is right... at least in the case of these collaborative series. There's still the occasional decent standalone novel out there.

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#29 Casen

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 05:00 PM

The New Jedi order, specifically the Yuuzhan Vong, I felt so/so on.

I thought their approach to an organic alien race (which has been done to death in sci-fi in general), was actually original, at least relatively...and it made the Vong extremely fucking creepy.

Otherwise the way they changed the Star Wars universe really fucked shit up for me...I have to admit, I was cheering for the Bothans at the end, for that Ar'kai genocide. The peaceful resolution just didn't sit well with my own personal hatred for them...I hated them from an in-universe perspective mostly though. They made enemies I hated as much as the denizens of the galaxy did.

#30 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 05:11 PM

I wouldn't mind finding out what happened to Steele after the game, seeing how he was one of the top Imperial pilots in the galaxy apparently. He showed up in one paragraph in the new series... something about him being present at the ridiculous event on kessel. Considering how the writers are doing now, I'd rather not let them decide though.

Yeah, I haven't read Outcast (or any of the others), but I read about it in his article... something to the effect of saving Kessel from the Garrison Moon (which was destroyed thirty years prior). Add in Stele for no apparent reason and it all sounds like really bad fanfic.

#31 Phoenix Rising

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:25 AM

Hey, check this out: apparently TFU II was just announced. I guess it'd have to be a "midquel" then, based on what happened in the original.

#32 BansheeMalthus

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:11 AM

Hmmmm. I wonder if they will release it on PC in the beginning. The console thing is what started turning me off the Star wars games.

#33 Tropical Bob

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:41 AM

I didn't think that TFU was too bad. Maybe slightly damaging to canon and continuity, but it's nothing that (At least I don't think) we can't live with. I'd be interested to see if they up the scales somewhat on the Force powers. And definitely stop using Force-shielded Stormtroopers... (But Master, why use our lightsabers when I can just use Force Aneurysm?)

I still need to download the DLC for TFU, too...

#34 anakinskysolo

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:44 AM

Mmmm... Just read the thread, and it is an interesting discussion you have here. My thinking is much less drastic than yours, I think I liked the Prequels, probably because Episode 1 was my first SW movie. The Clone Wars movie was bad, but the series is not, at least in my opinion. I would still like to have more references on EU material, though. Karen Traviss annoys me in a sense, I guess, but I must admit that I was unable to stop reading her books, they had some things that are completely ignored in the rest of SW continuity... although she was just too bad on the Jedi and that thing she had with the Mandalorians, well, let's say that she had something of an obssession disease with them. About the recent novels, I must say that I did like LOTF, and that FOTJ started badly, but the last Troy Denning book raised it a lot: there are many questions that have to be answered in the series, and they will allow us to understand many of the unresolved EU mysteries. What I don't like at all is the Legacy comics series. It suggests that everything that Luke, Han and Leia did was for nothing, that in a couple of decades after them the galaxy will be worst than before them. I think that they are too important to make their lives seem absolutely unimportant for the galaxy.

#35 Kaleb Graff

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:47 AM

The problem with Star Wars is that in 1999 it was removed from the geeks and put in the hands of artists and marketers. It bothers me that the only major reference to ships introduced before 1999 that I have found in the prequels is Outbound Flight, and that people keep making up stuff instead of using what's there. What happened to all the Victorys? They would have been better then the Venators for that sort of work, but they weren't original to Episode III, so they had to go.
I'm going to go and plot revolt now. It's almost winter break and I need something to do.

#36 Ghostrider

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:01 AM

The problem with Star Wars is that in 1999 it was removed from the geeks and put in the hands of artists and marketers. It bothers me that the only major reference to ships introduced before 1999 that I have found in the prequels is Outbound Flight, and that people keep making up stuff instead of using what's there. What happened to all the Victorys? They would have been better then the Venators for that sort of work, but they weren't original to Episode III, so they had to go.
I'm going to go and plot revolt now. It's almost winter break and I need something to do.


We guess the Vics got sold to the Picket Fleet - anyways that's where I'm putting them in the campaigns. Anyone seen anything different?

#37 Kaleb Graff

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 05:20 PM

We guess the Vics got sold to the Picket Fleet - anyways that's where I'm putting them in the campaigns. Anyone seen anything different?

Not during the height of the clone wars, though.

I'll have to see if I can get first on the library list for the new Zahn novel. What bothers me most about the collaborative series is the change in writing can be jarring. Boba Fett is big in Sacrifice, but (I believe) doesn't show up in the next two books.

So far, my plan is this:
Storm the secret headquarters, and elevate PR to king of star wars. He can then declare almost everything since 2005 uncannon, and we can start again.

Edited by Kaleb Graff, 16 December 2009 - 05:27 PM.


#38 Ghostrider

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 06:08 PM

Yeah.
Taking on Grievous with carriers at point blank range in ROTS was not very smart. I'd have Vics there instead. The torpedo barrage alone would have done the trick in seconds.

Besides, wer'nt the Vic designed to kill the CIS Bulwark-I's??
If so where were they in the fight?

#39 Kaleb Graff

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:01 PM

The Venator is a horrible design. It carries too many fighters to be a good close-combat ship, but is too heavily armed to be a carrier. You could fit that many fighters into a smaller ship with weaker armament, or the weapons into a smaller ship with fewer fighters, both of which would work much better. It's like the Kiev-class, but more so. When I play the imps (not often) I usually have them stand off and use fighters, because of the fighter respawn thing, but it's the best of a set of bad options.

#40 feld

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:05 PM

Yeah.
Taking on Grievous with carriers at point blank range in ROTS was not very smart. I'd have Vics there instead. The torpedo barrage alone would have done the trick in seconds.


My retcon: Recall that the on screen portion of the Battle of Coruscant was a tiny part of a huge battle that probably spanned tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers. The part that we saw on screen featured the Republican force trying very very hard to rescue (not vaporize) Chancellor Palpatine from the Invisible Hand. Turbolasers (with selectable power settings - see ICS for Episode 3) are much much better than massed volleys of concussion missiles for that purpose.

Besides, wer'nt the Vic designed to kill the CIS Bulwark-I's??
If so where were they in the fight?

My retcon: They were offscreen battling for control of the higher altitudes. The Vic's missile batteries were unlikely to see much use. I don't think that the Republic was keen on bombarding Coruscant. The part of the battle we see is the part fought very close to the surface (in space terms) to support landing or repelling ground troops. My guess is that the big fleet units were at much higher altitudes trying to prevent the other side's heavy ships from getting into position to use long ranged fire from winning the fight for the lower skies where the invasion was being decided by smaller ships.

Again, the on screen portion of the Battle of Coruscant is a tiny part of a truly huge battle. To steal from Douglas Adams (GRHS)

"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."

I think that most SF/fantasy creators/authors and consumers either just don't get this or are just don't think that it'll be interesting or fun to think about. Obviously, I disagree....but I'm used to being in minorities.

v/r
feld



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