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Lag due to debris holes left on ground by explosions


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#1 rsborl

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 04:56 PM

The amount of lag seems to increase over time as more and more explosions cause decals on the ground.

Is there any way to reduce the amount of debris or make so that some tank weapons don't cause decals on the ground, so that game speed can be maintained? Also, we could even change the voxel for the debris holes to be invisible so they don't cause lag, or if there is some other way to remove them.

#2 Elerium

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:46 PM

Westwood in their infinite logic left translucency on for all their animations and these stack and possibly loop causing game lag so I'd get rid of all translucency and the game should run a lot faster. RS removes nearly all translucency so it runs real smooth..

Edited by Elerium, 04 October 2009 - 05:49 PM.

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#3 rsborl

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:53 PM

Another thing I'm worried about is the 4th faction, Osiris.

The reason: 4 factions are hard to balance. Even Epic Games had trouble keeping Dawn of War: Winter Assault balanced with all of its new patches after introducing the 4th faction. With 2 factions, you directly add/subtract power from both factions at once. With 3 factions, you have to begin to analyze and decide how the 3 factions interact. But with 4 factions, it might even take the analytical skills of a supercomputer to get everything in the right place.

Edited by rsborl, 04 October 2009 - 05:56 PM.


#4 Apollo

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:06 PM

Heh, bored of mental omega already? :p

anyways 1.99 isnt optimized really at all so lag is definite unlike 2.0 which does all that can be done about these problems.

in 1.99 debris lags, anims lag, ai unit pathfinding lags, the excessive glow light added to some weapon hits also lags.

and yes debris causes the stack-up like lag from which game never recovers and continues until it crawls.

Anyways I think you mean Relic, it was Relic that did dawn of war.
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EAApoc wrote:
The only written law in a C&C game I ever saw is please Mr.Developer make it fun and give me a lot of **** to explode, o and don't you ever get another soul to play Kane but Joe Kucan. Aside from those two rules, all bets are off =) hehe
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#5 OmegaBolt

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 06:51 PM

Then comes the question: is Osiris even going to feature, with incomplete art etc?

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#6 Elerium

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 09:11 PM

Not to mention DoW plays completely different, units have to run around constantly and when you get in melee it's run away for shooty units or stand and fight for big monsters..
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#7 rsborl

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Posted 04 October 2009 - 11:12 PM

One interesting option that this mod allows for is the choice to have good ownage.

Sometimes you crave simply for the defeat of the enemy in skirmish as fast as possible, only aiming for the accomplishment of mission objectives. However, there are times I (and I'm sure there are other players who do this) like to enjoy some tactical RTS, where I would create a small group of elite units as a highly tactical and mobile fighting squad (ex. a team of 6 elite heavy tanks and some elite hotkeyed aircraft for fighting support, and maybe 2 elite snipers) and enjoy the satisfying ownage as this team crushes the incoming enemy task forces and does some recon missions around the map.

This mod allows for this:
-seemingly, it appears veterancy has been made harder to get and the elite units have been made stronger
-hospitals and tech repair shops allow for an excellent regeneration rate, increasing the survivability of this group
-lethality of units is not yet too high

A general trend often observed in modding is that the power and lethality of units increase over time (through adding some powerful new units, then beefing up other existing units to compensate) which eventually results in a situation where units kill each other very easily. In this case, it would be much harder to 'have some ownage fun' as described earlier (since the group can get killed much faster and easier), leaving the only option for amusement in the mod to be solely focusing on the completion of the mission (and not these 'side missions'). Also, the fact that units have reduced lifespans and reduced survivability changes the nature of the game from a tactical standpoint to a meat renderer, where units are created only to be fed to the tornado of war (in this case, the identities of each unit becomes hazy because they're dying and getting replaced so quickly)

Therefore, would it be necessary to prevent the general trend of increasing lethality from increasing too much, and offer opportunist small groups of units (chosen by the player seeking some side fun, perhaps with some hospitals and tech repair shops) to have the chance to survive?

Edited by rsborl, 04 October 2009 - 11:27 PM.


#8 Apollo

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 06:44 AM

Well, you sure are deep thinker arent you, in any case 1.99 kinda failed on many aspects, advanced tech units completely made basic units redundant especially if got to elite instead of having some fighting chance and buildings were still too fragile, infantry were about useless and so on...

2.0 turns it around by lesser firepower for high tech units by elite level as they are already high-end while lower level units get the usual 2x boost and given most high tech units are based on selectable branches, it allows different strategys or you could do it the hard way and fight with the generic army units if wished to and still achieve results.

Biggest change is the infantry....they can be life saver if face a air horde or non-mixed tank army coming up.

Generally all units can self-heal slowly in 2.0 so if take them away from fight... you can let them hold area and heal increasing hit'n'run possibilities besides usual low health situation in past=bah..suicide 'em! but its all up to players really.

Osi are in re-evaluation state given development issues.

Edited by Apollo, 05 October 2009 - 07:04 AM.

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#9 Ash

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Posted 05 October 2009 - 12:00 PM

Another thing I'm worried about is the 4th faction, Osiris.

The reason: 4 factions are hard to balance. Even Epic Games had trouble keeping Dawn of War: Winter Assault balanced with all of its new patches after introducing the 4th faction. With 2 factions, you directly add/subtract power from both factions at once. With 3 factions, you have to begin to analyze and decide how the 3 factions interact. But with 4 factions, it might even take the analytical skills of a supercomputer to get everything in the right place.

Epic games didn't make DoW :p but game was balanced enough. I agree, you can never balance all sides completely unless you give them exactly the same hardware, but you can balance them to a big extent. In truth, a lot of perceived 'imbalance' actually comes from poor play rather than poor game. Take Allies and Soviets in Red Alert 1. On the face of it, hugely imbalanced; soviets seem to hold all the cards. They have all-consuming firepower, they have untold armour and the best aggressive vehicles in the game. The allies have to make do with light tanks and medics. I used to think that the allies were guaranteed stuffed. But they weren't; they just needed a different playstyle.

Osiris was probably pretty hard for Apollo to balance, I'm sure, since its game-pace is totally different. Osiris is a much slower game than, say, AL or FL. FL literally cannot go toe-to-toe. Essentially, an Osi/FL match is Soviet/Allied of RA1. Osi can just bulldoze her way through you, but that's pretty much all she can do. FL can disrupt, counter-punch and blitz you. AL are something different again - AL need to get the first punch in, and hit hard and fast, because they can't take what they can dish out. NX just zerg and swarm mostly, with a bit of ranged power for added measure. Every side adds something different to the party, and different players will enjoy playing them differently. I, for one, hate playing FL. I just don't work with them. I enjoy playing AL and NX, though I'm better at playing NX.

One interesting option that this mod allows for is the choice to have good ownage.

Sometimes you crave simply for the defeat of the enemy in skirmish as fast as possible, only aiming for the accomplishment of mission objectives. However, there are times I (and I'm sure there are other players who do this) like to enjoy some tactical RTS, where I would create a small group of elite units as a highly tactical and mobile fighting squad (ex. a team of 6 elite heavy tanks and some elite hotkeyed aircraft for fighting support, and maybe 2 elite snipers) and enjoy the satisfying ownage as this team crushes the incoming enemy task forces and does some recon missions around the map.

You're probably more of an AL player then, if you like to be like this. However the AI is fast and tends not to allow for 'small' groups.

This mod allows for this:
-seemingly, it appears veterancy has been made harder to get and the elite units have been made stronger
-hospitals and tech repair shops allow for an excellent regeneration rate, increasing the survivability of this group
-lethality of units is not yet too high

Veteran and elite units are godlike because they're so hard to get. The trouble is, they're also hard to keep because although lethality of units isn't too high, very few units can take more than a couple of hits from their card-carrying destroyers (i.e, tank hunters and mantis can rape even highest level enemy armour, because they're designed for that)

A general trend often observed in modding is that the power and lethality of units increase over time (through adding some powerful new units, then beefing up other existing units to compensate) which eventually results in a situation where units kill each other very easily. In this case, it would be much harder to 'have some ownage fun' as described earlier (since the group can get killed much faster and easier), leaving the only option for amusement in the mod to be solely focusing on the completion of the mission (and not these 'side missions'). Also, the fact that units have reduced lifespans and reduced survivability changes the nature of the game from a tactical standpoint to a meat renderer, where units are created only to be fed to the tornado of war (in this case, the identities of each unit becomes hazy because they're dying and getting replaced so quickly)

Therefore, would it be necessary to prevent the general trend of increasing lethality from increasing too much, and offer opportunist small groups of units (chosen by the player seeking some side fun, perhaps with some hospitals and tech repair shops) to have the chance to survive?

In RS2.0, units are a lot tougher. Even infantry and aircraft. In 1.99 planes could be swatted with minimal effort, and inf were all but meat except when garrisoned. Apollo did the opposite to the curve you describe in that, although yes a few more firepower units do exist here and there, he's actually buffed the armour across the board.

I know Apollo's said all this but I think it needs re-iterating. :p

Also repeating Apollo, tech branches eliminate much of the redundancy inherent, while still allowing him to throw in new units. Your unit rosters will be a lot smaller and more manageable, and I think will accommodate your strategies of choice better. For example, I think you might like the AL's Illusion tech branch given your description of your playstyle.

Osi are in re-evaluation state given development issues.

This isn't what I want to hear, dude. o.o :p

#10 rsborl

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Posted 06 October 2009 - 02:53 AM

I posted some bugs in the bugs thread. Thanks, I just wanted those points heard. The rest sounds good.

Edited by rsborl, 06 October 2009 - 02:55 AM.


#11 Elerium

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 09:55 AM

Osi and FL are fine, I don't think they play like Allies and Sovs RA1 as they're mostly unique in balance. Osi can attack yes but so can FL using various mix of units, same with Osi using special units from research to screw over FL whilst FL does same.

Edited by Elerium, 07 October 2009 - 09:57 AM.

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