32 replies to this topic

[Kitkun]

Most likely the bay's shield and magnetic field generators are contained in the same area to maximize efficiency. Or something like that.
Perhaps the magnetic field is attached to the shield, charging the atmosphere and repelling it away from the shield, which is then stripped of it's charge so it's no longer a danger to the crew within?

Edited by Kitkun, 09 November 2009 - 11:38 PM.

[jdk002]

So you can't pass through shielding either way without it being lowered. The confusing part is that the atmosphere starts leaking when the hangar generators are knocked out, which would imply that no one can be present in the hangar for launches or landings. This is shown not to be true in just about every other film.

I still think it's a simple matter of not letting anything in but letting most things out. I'm also more inclined to believe that the difference between particle and ray shielding plays a big role here as well. I mean in almost any Star Wars game I've ever played or clip of a movie I've ever seen (excluding the first 3 lol) hangar shields function in this capacity. At least being ray shielded would make sense, seeing as that would keep out any blaster/laser fire but I'm not too keen on technical data but I'm almost certain that allows solid matter to pass through.

Also, how on earth would the Millennium Falcon have escaped the Death Star if lowering the shields before leaving was the case? I mean the only thing Obi-Wan knocked out was the tractor beam, not the hangar shields.

[Phoenix Rising]

I still think it's a simple matter of not letting anything in but letting most things out.

Wouldn't it then let the air out too? Sorry, I'm trying not to assume anything for the sake of discussion .

Also, how on earth would the Millennium Falcon have escaped the Death Star if lowering the shields before leaving was the case? I mean the only thing Obi-Wan knocked out was the tractor beam, not the hangar shields.

Shields only need to be powered up during combat. Also, I'm not sure the Death Star was uniformly shielded. Critical areas were, certainly, but some of the X-wing strafing runs show lasers damaging the hull.

[Tropical Bob]

My bad on my other post. For some reason (Probably from just waking up) I assumed the discussion was about what kept the air in.

I do believe I remember mentions of shielding being let down to allow fighters to pass in and out of a hangar during a battle as well. I mean, with all sorts of fueling connections, munitions, and all the like, having all that open to attack would be a terrible weakness to any well-armored ship.

[Phoenix Rising]

My bad on my other post. For some reason (Probably from just waking up) I assumed the discussion was about what kept the air in.

The topic's about the nature of shields and why you can't fire salvos of torpedoes at dreadnaughts to make them blow up (contrary to what some authors would suggest), but it's fine.

[feld]

So you can't pass through shielding either way without it being lowered. The confusing part is that the atmosphere starts leaking when the hangar generators are knocked out, which would imply that no one can be present in the hangar for launches or landings. This is shown not to be true in just about every other film.

The ANH quote (according to my best recollection) is that they were passing through the magnetic field. Saxton says that the Death Star may have its own magnetic field just like a planet does. That's certainly not beyond the pale and the field didn't do much of anything to the Rebel fighters.

He also talks about the Invisible Hand's hangar being an "extensive modification" of a normal Providence-class ship in the Invisible Cross Section Books. The shield generators that Anakin destroyed might have been a result of a design compromise.

I don't think that the RotS data really add anything to the analysis and I don't think that the ship's shields have anything to do with the atmosphere containment fields.

If needs be, I could come up with a more detailed retcon...but roger all about the actual nature of the topic.

v/r
feld

Edited by feld, 11 November 2009 - 12:49 AM.

[jdk002]

Wouldn't it then let the air out too? Sorry, I'm trying not to assume anything for the sake of discussion tongue.gif.

Well, air could be held in by some type of magnetic field I suppose... on like a molecular level. It would be similar to how realistic "lasers" work, containing plasma in a small magnetic field which would explain why the "barrier" between space and breathable air has a slight glow to it similar to how electrons glow in plasma when it's magnetically contained.

Shields only need to be powered up during combat. Also, I'm not sure the Death Star was uniformly shielded. Critical areas were, certainly, but some of the X-wing strafing runs show lasers damaging the hull.

I would think that a hangar entrance would be a critical area and would require shielding, nobody wants stray laser blasts ruining your day when you're a mere traffic controller.

Though I could be wrong.. honestly it's a good point in general and my argument against it isn't that solid seeing as "ray" shielding could essentially do the same thing and still allow actual matter to escape.

He also talks about the Invisible Hand's hangar being an "extensive modification" of a normal Providence-class ship in the Invisible Cross Section Books. The shield generators that Anakin destroyed might have been a result of a design compromise.

Anakin could have shot a crucial power component which not only led to shield failure but also any atmospheric containment systems as well.

[Phoenix Rising]

If needs be, I could come up with a more detailed retcon...but roger all about the actual nature of the topic.

It would be interesting, but I don't think I'd have any means of including it in the mod so as to matter.

In light of the original topic, perhaps we should focus on the yield of a starfighter-scale proton torpedo instead? Red Leader's torpedoes missed the exhaust port and barely made a scratch - "impacted on the surface". That would seem to imply that their power has been greatly overstated in the EU. Granted, the Death Star's hull was made primarily from quadanium, while most starships' are made from doonium, but the only means we have of quantifiably comparing the two is SWG, which is game mechanic at best (I used to be a prominent weaponsmith pre-CU... it's a lost art).

[feld]

In light of the original topic, perhaps we should focus on the yield of a starfighter-scale proton torpedo instead? Red Leader's torpedoes missed the exhaust port and barely made a scratch - "impacted on the surface". That would seem to imply that their power has been greatly overstated in the EU. Granted, the Death Star's hull was made primarily from quadanium, while most starships' are made from doonium, but the only means we have of quantifiably comparing the two is SWG, which is game mechanic at best (I used to be a prominent weaponsmith pre-CU... it's a lost art).

Roger PR. Only still arguing about atmospheric shields to differentiate them from the ray and particle shields.

Seem to recall that the next shot showed the interior of the station rocking quite a bit. Perhaps the Rebel's fish were set to "low yield" for more of a focused blast? Or perhaps their warheads were downsized or they were othewise modified for the long (~ hundred kilometer) run down the exhaust port into the DS I's main reactor to set up the chain reaction. I'd argue that the DS-1 protorp isn't very useful for yield estimation.

Wouldn't it then let the air out too? Sorry, I'm trying not to assume anything for the sake of discussion tongue.gif.

Well, air could be held in by some type of magnetic field I suppose... on like a molecular level. It would be similar to how realistic "lasers" work, containing plasma in a small magnetic field which would explain why the "barrier" between space and breathable air has a slight glow to it similar to how electrons glow in plasma when it's magnetically contained.

jdk...I thought of that...but actually, I'm thinking magnetic confinement doesn't work to explain what we're seeing. The amount of ionization of all of the air in that cavity (even just the part illuminated by the blue hanger light rims) would have noticable physical effects that we just don't see on film (like scorching the sides of all the ships that pass through pretty badly). And, since the only mention of magnetic shielding that I can find can be explained as something else...I shy away from using them to explain atmospheric shielding.

Anakin could have shot a crucial power component which not only led to shield failure but also any atmospheric containment systems as well.

That could work too...but all I'm trying to say is that the atmospheric shields and the defensive (ray/particle) shields don't have to be or even appear to be the same ship system.

v/r
feld

[Phoenix Rising]

Roger PR. Only still arguing about atmospheric shields to differentiate them from the ray and particle shields.

It just seems like there really isn't even a canonical consensus on this . But if you have more to add, don't let me stop you.

I'd argue that the DS-1 protorp isn't very useful for yield estimation.

Fair enough. What about Ani's rampage in TPM? That from inside the hangar and it didn't seem to do too much damage until he hit the reactor.

[Tropical Bob]

Considering the nature of the future technology that we see in Star Wars (read: They use black magic), we might be able to theorize that the atmospheric shield is some sort of energy field that acts as a kind of virtual inverse membrane, allowing solids through while keeping gaseous matter in. Not sure if such technology is possible or feasible, but I'll just throw that out there as an option.


As for proton torpedo strength, maybe the TPM-era torpedoes were weaker, being a bit earlier in the timeline, whereas some advanced materials or design or something allowed for them to be stronger for ANH-era.

Since Wedge and his cohorts were operating illegally in the X-wing series, perhaps the torpedoes (Or at least some of them) they bought might have been black market versions, enhanced with stronger explosives, like baradium or whatever. (Possible P-canon retcon?) I haven't read that series in forever, so I'm not sure if it was mentioned where they got them exactly or not.

Edited by Tropical Bob, 12 November 2009 - 05:27 AM.

[SpardaSon21]

I think Wedge and the gang got a lot of their firepower from Talon Karrde.

[Kaleb Graff]

Is it possible that the Invisible Hand didn't have the atmosphere shields that most ships have? It was mostly crewed by droids, so they wouldn't be needed, and the hangar particle shields could be used when needed.