59 replies to this topic

[Archon]

As for Naz's supporters: you're just making yourselves look like moronic flamers. I have nothing against any of you, but you really ought to try to be the bigger people here.

This topic should simply be closed. Permanently.

[{IRS}Athos]

I had considered doing that, but Naz would just unlock it again...

[Sûlherokhh]

Can we move it to the Junkyard and just let it die there in peace, please? I know i should be able to do it right away, but i haven't been much involved in the fighting so i leave it to you guys to find a suitable place for it to wither away.

[Uruk King]

But first can I have a say in this for a moment?

First of all: Oh.My.God

This is the most absurd thing I've been unfortunate to read. And I hold that Herrmoor is in the wrong here. If he simply understood that such mods as SEE are works of art that take time, care and dedication, this wouldn't have happened.

Also I quote Hermorr: "Nazgul is pathetic cuz he acts like a arrogant asshole on the internet.". Well, personally if I were an Administrator I would see off these forums very quickly with rotten behaviour like that. But of course, that is for the real admins to decide, all due respect.

But that's just my coin on the matter.

[Downfall]

Just let it die and leave well enough alone.

[Dragonforce]

This is ridiculous. When I was new at the forums (over a year or something) I had a lot of ideas but I didn't demand anything. (Someone can fix this if you disagree ) And I wouldn't had even thought to say something like this here...

I don't understand why so many new around here (new members and guests) want so often put mods together and steal stuff from other mods.

[CTLN7]

nothing to understand. they (like me ) want to play the ultimate mod .. but i understand that mods cant merge because leaders have their own way to see the perfect mod

Edited by CTLN7, 29 October 2009 - 05:26 PM.

[m@tt]

For the record, Hermoor can't post for a few days, so don't expect him to reply.

[Predi]

Wow. I just came home from work, and visited this forum, and I see this... I don't know what to call this. Pathetic attemp in self-justification maybe?
As I see it, Hermoor thinks he knows best... then everyone else, and can't admit that he's wrong, even when when literally everyone is in a disagreement with him. In that way, he's making a fool of himself.
There's nothing wrong in keeping this topic open. People like him will come back to see the responses, and after all of these posts, maybe he will think about what he has just done.
I myself give respect when its due, when it's earned (nobody is borned for respect, and yes I don't respect older people) and modders, GOOD modders earned it. But to write such thing as "arrogant asshole" about Nazgúl... In this case Hermoor only earned a great deal of counter-flaming.
Thus I think it's not childish to flame him to hell, it's righteous (in a civiliziled way of course)

So Hermoor, grow up and don't be an angry little child when someone - everyone - disagrees with you. And please understand, that copyright exists on the internet too...

Have a nice day!

PS: please keep this thread open. Yes, it's pathetic but still funny

[{IRS}Athos]

PS: please keep this thread open. Yes, it's pathetic but still funny

This just proves that it needs to be closed. It's not doing any good for anyone.

Sooo...

[Rob38]

PS: please keep this thread open. Yes, it's pathetic but still funny

This just proves that it needs to be closed. It's not doing any good for anyone.

Sooo...

Athos, please do not come in and try to enforce rules on T3A. The staff here (and now me) are already addressing it and it really is not your place to do so. You are leader of IceForge, not T3A. Thanks.

As for this topic and the other, let's not all join on a bandwagon and bash Hermoor. In the end, that accomplishes nothing. Simply state that you do not agree with the user's views and be done with it. I do not care if you think it's justified or not, do not bash another member. End of story.

As for Hermoor statements, he is somewhat correct that there is no legal backing to the Modder Code of ethics, but that's modding in general. If a artist makes everything from scratch, including the model, skin, animation, etc., then that person owns that piece. Of course, almost all modders use bits and pieces from BFME and other sources so artists only have ownership to bits and pieces of every mod. As for Hermoor's argument about just combining mods just because we can, I completely disagree with his statement. The reason for this is respect. If we have no respect for each other as artists and individuals, then a community like this would have never existed. People put a tremendous amount of work into their mods, and to simply disregard their feelings about keeping their work in their mod is an utter lack of respect. Sure, you can go around and show no respect to anyone, but do not expect to get a friendly reception in return. Treat others how you want to be treated is a good motto to live by. How would you like it if I went and just took all your hard-earned stuff and not care what you think about it? You probably would not be too happy. This is how we view mods. Each mod has its own unique flavor to it, and you can't simply just combine mods. The artwork styles and mod visions would not match, and it is not guaranteed that it will automatically become an awesome mod. What makes mods great is not necessarily the content in it, but the people behind the creation and the journey they take to complete a project.

My apologizes for not addressing this sooner, but I was busy with other things. I like to keep this topic open (as long as Naz is ok with it), but do not post flames. You will receive warns if you do.

Rob38

[MirkwoodArcher]

I have to say I agree with both Hermoor and Nazgul.

Hermoor is right in a way, it would be awesome to merge two mods and put everything under one name. There would be much more material for the mod leaders to use. A lot of new modelers and skinners to work on the mod as well. Things would go faster and the result would be better.

But what I think he doesn't realize is that nazgul and the other guy who is the leader over Edain. See these mods as their work. There personal hobby sort of, and merging the mods is therefore impossible. It's kinda like in lotr. "there is only one lord of the rings, and he doesn't share power."

Therfore in a way Hermoor acts like some leader over the easterlings. He wants Mordor and Isengard to join and work together in a much better way than they already do. And thereofore over throw the enemy. (All the other mods)

But as you know both Saruman and Sauron wants the ring for themself, and they doesn't share power. So it's impossible, that is what I think Hermoor doesn't udnerstand. And getting between the nazgul and his mod, will only result in pain.

It's not possible...at the same time this is Nazguls mod, and he does whatever he wants or think it best for it. So Hermoor has nothing to say about it, and he should keep his mouth shut because there is nothing he can do to change Nazguls or anyone elses mind about it.

My two cents

There are also other important reasons (that Nazgul has mentioned many times already) why the mods can't be combined.

First of all, RJ is Rob's mod and because he is not here, his work can't be changed (because it belongs to him) even if it would be good. Also, Nazgul says that combining mods wouldn't be good as each mod is different and has different purposes. So, it's not just Nazgul's opinion that is preventing this...

@Rob38: Well said!

Edited by MirkwoodArcher, 30 October 2009 - 12:42 AM.

[Uruk King]

Absolutely agree with Rob38, very well said indeed.

Also, King of Balrogs' Middle-earth metaphor was certainly a clever way of putting it into perspective, very good.

It becomes worth keeping alive so that people can still learn from it.

[khamulrulz]

unfortunately for hermoor, it is physically impossible to combine rotwk mods (edain and rj rotwk) with bfme2 mods (s.e.e.)
there is no need to dispute this.

i am also quite surprised this is still open, and gets more attention than the development threads.

Edited by khamulrulz, 30 October 2009 - 09:39 AM.

[Prince of the Dark Forest]

I was up for keeping this open for the fun of it, but now it's just a wasted thread. Most people who are concerned know about Hermoor's behaviour so whoever's keeping this thread open should close it...

Keep it here... for reference though.

[Nazgûl]

Athos, please do not come in and try to enforce rules on T3A. The staff here (and now me) are already addressing it and it really is not your place to do so. You are leader of IceForge, not T3A. Thanks.

My point exactly, but I dared not state that... With all do respect to Athos though, but this is not your fight =p

...worth keeping alive so that people can still learn from it.

E-x-a-c-t-l-y! Thank you - finally someone grasps it!

Keep it here... for reference though.

Again... that's my intention.


NOW: Let's sum this up...

1) I had no frigging idea this kid was only 13 years old, and I have no idea how anyone knew that since his profile doesn't state it. Considering he's actually pretty good in English (wow I gave him a compliment ) it was even harder to guess his age.

2) However, regardless of age, I AM a believer in harsh ways. I know most of you people are not. In #3 I'll tell you WHY I want it this way. Most of you seem to think it's ALWAYS better to try and forgive, learn, educate and try to see the best in each and everyone. I KINDLY ask of you to consider that I am pretty OLD. And I have worked in security since 14 years. I have wrestled with people twice my size, HALF my size, twize my age and HALF my age, and less. My point is that there are rotten tomatoes in all ages and all sizes, and MOST of them NEVER - EVER - learn to be a better person. Now, there are exceptions off course, but - THAT is not my job. I am not a psychologist or a therapist. Not irl and NOT here. I am here to do a mod, which from the start was a very small 1 man project. In time people joined me and I became dependant on others to finish this production that somehow grew into enormous proportions. When I find a mod partner like RJ and Edain, to exchange a controlled numbers of assets with, I don’t need anyone to throw dirt upon that, in any way.

3) Now by dealing with things swiftly and harshly, we won't ever HAVE to get into bickering like this, that is DOOMED to escalate into situations like these. After all - this is NOT irl right. Modding is pretty trivial compared to other things and matters like these should not even be given an opportunity to grow. This is nothing like all the problems we have to deal with irl. Unemployment, poverty, sickness, accidents, heart aches, losing loved ones and so on and so forth. Life if FILLED with hinders and problems of all sort, and if you could somehow LESSEN the burden, I think you should. Trying to make a mod is something that easily could be a full time project - at least when the production have reached this size. And the last thing you need is to let a 13 yo influence the mod and the forum community this way. And HERE is my point again:

4) If I have had warn- and admin powers I would have warned him sooner, and banned him instantly (when things got to this level) which started with him disrespecting my second mod partner Edain mod, and the deal we made by him simply suggest over and over again that we can steal their work as well as RJ's (and any mod for that matter) simply because we can. I find that lack of respect for the modding community totally unacceptable and very eligible for a ban. At least if I had rules that stated that (in my forums) =p

The bottom line is that I don't think we should give kids like this the opportunity to start something that is most likely to escalate into something like THIS. Ignoring and disregarding is not a way of teaching in my book. And also, as Hosted I can't even warn him myself, and I don't feel that happy about having to ask others and wait for them to intervene with help doing so.

Thus - I'm strongly once more considering moving SEE to another forum. (Which we did once). This time I would own the server myself, and not the webmaster I had at the time. We'll see... I have too cool off for a while for starters as I pretty much lost my newly found modding motivation again, so don't expect any updates soon. Don't flame Hermoor fot that though. This is the result of XX number of n00bs attacking the forums from time to time during all them years I have been here =p Eventually you just grow sick of it. Modding is supposed to be fun, not about standing your ground vs kids with no mannes, regardless of who they are, their age and where they come from. This was just another drop of water in a glass already half full =p

Edited by Nazgûl, 30 October 2009 - 10:53 AM.

[khamulrulz]

too bad... nazgul, just so you know, for every one of him, theres like a hundred of us who genuinely want to see this mod be the best it can - with you in charge.

i hope you can get back to action soon

[Archon]

All that is true, Naz. The problem with this topic is that people are still flaming Hermoor and stating their opinion OVER and OVER again in increasingly negative ways. In my opinion, that doesn't contribute to this SEE community and doesn't help the original disagreement one bit. Anything people are learning from this thread is overshadowed, in my opinion, by the dozens of negative slurs.
I have all respect for you, Naz, and dealing with things swiftly and harshly is a solid method. We should never let disrespectful things like Hermoor said go unpunished. But dealing with things harshly and letting things spiral out of control is not good...it simply escalates the fire and is drawing people away from the mod. We need to be able to "lay down the rules" and be done with it.
That's why I think this thread should be closed.

[Nazgûl]

Allright, as you wish *closed* =)

I guess I made my point anyways...