34 replies to this topic

[feillyne]

"Die gracefully". What BS. = /

Point me at least one reason why C&C3 or RA3 is worse than C&C2 or RA2... one reason. (Apart from a lot of chicks and stars, which is... well... positive?!) RA1 was more colourful than C&C1, RA2 was more cartoony than C&C2, RA3 is more variegated graphically than C&C3, so criticising RA3 for graphics is BS, too. ;->
What reasons left, let's count... hmm... boring campaigns, maybe, maybe. A lack of Yuri faction. But personally I like the Empire better than Super Extra Evil Yuri.
C&C3? This existing looks better than that sh*tty alpha, which was presented around Generals times. Generally, C&C3 should be more "darker", the atmosphere is too close to Generals (modern/contemporary) one. EALA scrapped subterranean units, too.
But, after all, C&C3 is quite an enjoyable game, save for some faux pas (curious to know why Nod Militia changed looks in KW? Because they remembered TS!).


You should know that EA let C&C die gracefully at least once (and perhaps not the last time).
Tiberium shooter. = / That's because of you! B/c of BS fans, anti-fans which hate EA just because it's EA! O.o [I know that it isn't true. But maybe they really read once "fans" opinions? Well, EA can judge the quality of its own games.]

Bias. Prejudice. Nothing more. (You think "made by EA? It's sh*t". If new C&C was made by another company and the result was exactly the same, you'd say that the game is actually good. -_- I can bet!)

Edited by feillyne, 14 November 2009 - 05:02 AM.

[Apollo]

Bias. Prejudice. Nothing more. (You think "made by EA? It's sh*t". If new C&C was made by another company and the result was exactly the same, you'd say that the game is actually good. -_- I can bet!)

Well, look at that, if you have been watching C&C ever since 1995 you'd have a problem with it, what started as serious toned strategy war game did over time turn into a comedy war rts and unlike classy comedy, EA does constant overkill and even consistency is plain impossible for them as currently they can't make up their minds with C&C4 whether its supposed to be post apocalyptic or circusland rts.

and to answer your suggestion of liking it, HELL NO, thats just misguided of you as fact of the matter is, they have turned one of the most loved game franchises into a yearly money milking practice and if even westwood did that, they'd be hated equally as bad but difference is, EA's effort is like piecing random lego pieces together when clearly some parts just don't fit at all so these days you can only expect absurd stuff?

Just for the record, the main thing with especially tiberian series was its scifi'sh story and what you saw in C&C3, was not how it was to go, its more or less EA's own inspirations and yes scrin were not supposed to be starship troopers bug rip-off either or be called by liquid tiberium detonation and i could go on and on about Nod and GDI designs where it didnt fit in at all, pitbull anyone???

One can't also praise the sound work of EA when orgasm like sounds make up death sounds instead of classy proper aargh screams, its like they intentionally mock C&C, if anyone saw latest Avatar 5 barreled...

Given the more recent, C&C3 isn't that bad as RA3 went even more absurd and just had to force cleavage down our throats intentionally and not cover it up in classy manner like RA2 where it is more mild sexual play where EA makes it overly obvious so even retards get it but sure, if it helps sell more, they don't have any qualms with it.

Ultimately i have Apoc's nice quote in my siggy on what he thinks about C&C's rules are and boy, is it surfaceful or what?

So yes, it should "Die gracefully" but as long as there is so called fast food game buyers, EA will surely keep up they're yearly production unless recent changes hinder them enough.

Edited by Apollo, 14 November 2009 - 07:15 PM.

[Ash]

It isn't a case of "it's EA therefore it's shit". EA own BioWare, yet they produce great games. Dead Space is an EA game. Mirror's Edge is EA. So is CryTek. They can produce good stuff.

The problem is that CNC3 and RA3 were not good. I would even say RA2/YR was not good, either. But it was at least fun. The really *good* C&Cs stopped with Tiberian Sun. Half of me is expecting them to revive the Dune RTS franchise, though. They've flogged CNC dead-horse enough, I figure they'll move along to milk another old favourite too. The infantry models haven't changed one iota since E:BFD in nearly ten years, so they should be right at home with it.

[feillyne]

@Apollo, we have modders and some tutorials, and we do have SDKs (except SDKs for the expansions), we can make RA3 or C&C3 'real', realistic, whatever. It's true that the game longevity doesn't end with the programmers and the game itself. It ends with the modding ability, fan community, various custom tools, and what fans can do with the game.

Did I see one mod whose aim is to make models/textures more "realistic", use different shaders, different terrains, etc. Is there, at least one, such mod?
It's our modders' fault that there aren't any.

Well, Condition Red is +/- realistic, RA2like, but anyway there isn't a remake of RA3 on the same engine, but with whole new atmosphere - a different one, realistic one.
C&C3 - TS-like mods, most of them unreleased, are very close to the concept how "C&C3 should like". But no one released...


@Ash Don't think so, dunno if they ever try to think about Dune. AFAIK, Dune gave them little revenue, besides, I didn't see any re-issues of Dune franchise (I managed to buy only Dune 2000).
BioWare, true, true.

But IMHO, C&C3/RA3 aren't that bad. They just aren't what they could be. Maybe it's good, b/c there's Halo Wars, there's StarCraft, maybe C&C must be more different from them, as we know, C&C does end with the space, with the Earth. There aren't any interplanetary thingies or settings.

Well, RA3 is perfect, IMHO (apart from underpowered Allies, i.e. in vanilla RA3). But C&C3 is far from the vision of the destroyed Earth, torn by conflict between GDI and Nod. It's C&C4 which should be C&C3 / released as C&C3. (W/ base building and harvesting.) Its setting is perfect. Mechs, futuristic infantry, etc.


PS If harvesting is out in C&C4, there must be other way to gain resources. RTS doesn't end with the economic system.

[OmegaBolt]

It's our modders' fault that there aren't any.

Maybe people just dont think its worth it. That old phrase comes to mind. You can't polish a turd...

Though really I don't think its too bad apart from the campaigns, boring maps and silly gameplay such as the ability to cripple your enemy in the first five minutes.

Edited by OmegaBolt, 15 November 2009 - 02:11 AM.

[feillyne]

Maybe people just dont think its worth it. That old phrase comes to mind. You can't polish a turd....

Sometimes it just takes more time. But your first sentence is then more significant: it can be not worth it. Especially if you'd want to make a TC for RA3.

But, as we can see, there is a good deal of TCs for C&C3. So? Isn't it worth in the end?

Though really I don't think its too bad apart from the campaigns, boring maps and silly gameplay such as the ability to cripple your enemy in the first five minutes.

You mean RA3? RA3 is fast-paced. Very fast... so fast that it's even more entertaining, but it mostly depends on your taste.

C&C3 is, IMHO, imbalanced. A good game, but not better, with under- or overpowered factions. Remember the Scrin? These bastards can take an opponent with only infantry. Plus they have additional SW... Mothership.


Well, I think it's better than C&C is alive. Only if we wait till releases of such mods as Dune Evolution (@Ash, it's only Dune "game"/"mod", which is made by anybody. -_- They're coding it now, so we'll see some in-game screenies), Tiberian Dawn, hmmmm, Tiberian Sun Uprising, MEC2... the second release candidate would be awesome.

Yes, it's good that C&C lives on. It'd be even better with even more pro (i.e. skilled) modders around. :-)

[Apollo]

Frankly, the amount of skilled modders has reduced with the newer C&C games plus the added workload discourages and really, C&C3 is best option if wanna do some non-cartoony mod as trying revert all that out of RA3 would be tons of work...

Then again, any TC for RA3 is stuck with the original ingame music as EA not support own music adding to it now

Seriously tho, fans are better off doing their own TC on remaking C&C3/RA3 etc entirely as originals are quite shallow and unlikely to entertain you for long and i think its a bit sad that they must rely on modding so much to stay afloat.

MEC2 was deemed a failure by some of the staff, they had online gaming in mind (mod designed for it mainly) but everyone just played it in skirmish so I don't think it'll be getting speedy updates by the staff that is still motivated while other half left and some noted that they should have made the mod for unreal tournament or any other more online active game.

The true C&C lives on because of the fans as they don't rush it else it is a lost cause.

[Thats me!]

@apollo:yeah the avatar looks really bad,or the flame tank,don't wanna talk about that one either,all over all the unit design is awfull.

for me a player who started cnc with ra2 and then gen,i really love those,and mods keep me playing zh until today,while i stopped playing new cnc,they were good,but they hadn't the fun those first cnc i had played,and it got boring after a while.

while not much players here plays cnc,those who play,play gen or ra2,with or without mods,however the new cncs aren't really played(for example,in internet cafes gen and ra2 is still installed until today,while cnc3 is nowhere to find,ra3 is still there,however it seems it will have the same fate as cnc3)

[feillyne]

@Apollo, MEC2 is quite enjoyable, scripted maps are nice, even if there are 4 of them. Some very good concept one can find there, too. So it's rather a matter of finishing MEC2... a very big win, for me, in the end. The 2nd release candidate, or 3rd one, will be stunning, I can bet.

C&C3 and RA3 need much more tutorials, at least RA3 does.
Conversions between engines, a lot of additional stuff (like TheWorms' enabling of chrono technology) should be made public or just some tuts how do this or that should be made.

We don't have skilled modders, b/c C&C3/RA3 is young and nobody is going to share his knowledge so easily...


@Thats me!, Nod Flame Tank is dumbfounding. It's one unit which I really do like. :-D
Avatar + that Nod epic unit (I don't even remember its name O_o Oh, now, now, it's Redeemer) look a bit out of place.

Always dreamed of Nod epic scorpion. -_-
What did I get? "Epic" robots. -_-
But it doesn't change my opinion of the game. C&C3 and RA3 are awesome, each in its own way, but C&C3 has many defects, such as online cheating, too modern warfare, and so on. As I said, RA3 is "perfect". Could do being more moddable... more and easier moddable.

[Thats me!]

@Thats me!, Nod Flame Tank is dumbfounding. It's one unit which I really do like. :-D
Avatar + that Nod epic unit (I don't even remember its name O_o Oh, now, now, it's Redeemer) look a bit out of place.

ehm....i mean the avatar and flame tank and units from cnc4 not cnc3,i liked cnc3 unit designs.

[Nighthawk]

We don't have skilled modders, b/c C&C3/RA3 is young and nobody is going to share his knowledge so easily...

In my opinion, we don't have many skilled modders because the learning curve and patience needed for working with the new SDK-based games is much greater than that for those previous, thus making what little skilled modders the community has rather few and far between.

[Bart]

I detect a lot of They Changed It Now It Sucks here. I have never played any C&C game before Red Alert 2, and as such can judge them without prejudice. My judgement is: I rather enjoyed Generals and RA3 is awesome. The campaigns and playing with friends, that is. Generals' AI is too stupid (I never played it online) and RA3's online sucks because of all the rushing (but what RTS game does not suffer from that?). C&C3 was ok, but not the greatest.

[OmegaBolt]

Hmm, well I dont know if I really compare the new ones and thats why theyre not great. Its just the games themselves IMO. I mean RA2 and TS suck compared to TD and RA1 so...

[Ash]

I suppose you're always going to get that trope when developers get sequelitis, 2play, but even if they completely missed the point with CNC3, at least they seemed to put some effort into making it, and some time. Then within weeks of launching it they announced Kane's Wrath. Literally, within three weeks of the game hitting the shelves they announced an expansion for it, and it was released within weeks of that. Then not three months had gone by and they were announcing RA3, and the cycle repeated with Uprising and with CNC4 announcement. Literally, the dust from the last offering has not yet settled and they're milking the dead cow again.

I honestly have no problem with them making more CNC. Nor do I particularly have a problem with them making a crap CNC (though that won't stop me from saying it's crap). My problem is with them making so many crap CNCs in so little time. It's so obvious as a cash spinner - if the expansion was nearly completed when you released the original game, why not just it in the original game?

Valve did the same sorta thing with Left 4 Dead 2, but not quite so bad - they at least waited six months before announcing a sequel game - and there was an ineffectual fan backlash.

[feillyne]

C&C3 is something different from RA3, two different products. Releasing C&C4 after C&C3 would be an exaggeration. Besides, take a look at Generals, BFME, BFME2, and C&C3 released by EALA. Especially at release dates.
They're fast. They're professional. Not some FPS Tiberium devs who don't even know where their butts are, let alone level design and game dev. If they had 1-2 years more, they'd release nothing at all.

Old C&C - R.I.P.
And long live the new C&C!
Without silly deficiencies such as a lack of 3 different sidebars for factions. -_- Westwood didn't even care for modders and modding tools, to say nothing of actual (not beta) screenshots on covers. And e.g. Emperor: Battle for Dune is hardly moddable so far, except for one mod, that's the truth. That's Westwood for you. Sincere & objective & equally critical or silent. Westwood is as evil as EA is, and they all are as evil as e.g. Ubisoft delaying PC versions of Assasin's Creed - while releasing it on other platforms, making waiting more painful and spoilers unbearable. And no, if they were really professional and caring, they'd release it the very same day - they wouldn't something like this happen.
Not to mention Blizzard, heh. Delaying, delaying, delaying. And then some announcements about the game divided in a few parts. -_- I imagine these upcoming x-packs just to make cash, haha.

So. For me EA is one of the most reliable companies, at least if it means release dates and fast & professional sequels. I spent my money well and I regret nothing. As I said, I played demos of C&C/RA1 back in '99 or even '98. :-D Even two/three missions was fun.
That's why I always consider and will always consider Generals/C&C3/RA3/C&C4 as NEW C&C. New. Better, released faster, more professional and reliable. Delays and postponing anything sucks (vide AC2 for PC = / I'll kill Ubisoft! &*$@*$@). It's good to know somebody who releases quite decent sequels in quite short time.
I'm loyal to C&C, not Westwood or EA. That's my point. :-)


Ah, I've forgotten:
Tiberium R.I.P.
(Hmm, or at least Kane won't rise again. ;-)

Edited by feillyne, 18 December 2009 - 04:19 AM.