34 replies to this topic

[feillyne]

Latest changes to the gameplay (the version not released yet):
+ two different walls:
* sandbags, cost $100, "wood" (light) type of armor, light protection
* regular walls were strengthened a bit, but they cost $500 now
+ hitpoints and damage dealt were upped 10 times, i.e. if Allied Gap Generator had 600 hitpoints, now it has 6000.

The latest change is made due to the impossibility of destroying buildings by infantry, even such ones as power plants. Ridiculous...

Edited by feillyne, 16 November 2009 - 10:35 PM.

[Beowulf]

Wonderful, you made the game entirely unplayable. Congrats for making turtling the only way to play.

[feillyne]

^^

Beowulf didn't even play the mod, I can bet...


B/c he'd know that Allies have Howitzers and Soviets WILL have map-range V3 rocket launchers. Whole map range... (as you know, V3 missiles can be shot down, so it's no problem.)

Edited by feillyne, 17 November 2009 - 08:42 PM.

[Beowulf]

That's entirely irrelevant and extremely ridiculous. It'll be nothing but a campfest and, ultimately, extremely dull.

[Aro]

I can see your point about structures being destroyed easily but there's a good reason for it, it's no fun waiting about 30 minutes for 10 Rhino tanks to blow up a power plant.

[feillyne]

That's entirely irrelevant and extremely ridiculous. It'll be nothing but a campfest and, ultimately, extremely dull.

It is relevant. You just spam this topic with your comments with no real knowledge about the mod, which makes your point... pointless.

500 bucks walls are slower to produce and you're pretty wasting time making them. Besides, in the final version, they'll be available as 2-tier walls.
Just when players get artillery units (2-tier units) and Soviets get Tesla Tanks, which as you o' Great Modder, know very well (well, you're a great modder, but not a Great Modder), can bypass the walls.

So? What's your point? Because you're too sissy to use aircraft to pound enemy that wastes time building $500 walls, which take a lot of time, which could be spent on building proper AA or other, base defenses?
It's only a beginning. To shield ConYard with such walls, you need some 2000 credits... there are many flaws of it.


Really, a rusher who doesn't want to use aircraft instead of trying to get through the walls, aircraft which is even cheaper in ASM.

Besides, walls are obstacles, they are for it.

ASM favours both turtles and rushers.
The end, nothing else to say.

BALANCE. Justice. Rushing overpower off.

I can see your point about structures being destroyed easily but there's a good reason for it, it's no fun waiting about 30 minutes for 10 Rhino tanks to blow up a power plant.

Aro, what do you mean? ;-)

Damage was upped too. So Rhino firepower x10. Hitpoints AND weapon damage are 10 times higher.
It doesn't change anything in reality - except that infantry equipped with small arms dealt damage below 1, which made them unable to destroy any buildings at all, any time.
This balance issue was fixed - they can destroy buildings, but it takes 2-3 minutes or more. It's "realistic", b/c you can't take with rifles whole building. -_-

Rhinos can blow up power plants in a matter of seconds. -_-
B/c in ASM shooting is faster, but some vehicles have ammo stats.
Shooting is slower when tanks don't have any ammo (b/c of slower time to reload, but when there's at least one shell/bullet, reloading is faster). So you can micro and use hit & run tactics, hit the target, back off, wait for tanks to resupply, then pound enemies structures and units fast.

I destroyed whole AI base with about 4-7 Rhinos lately, in a matter of couple of minutes. Only.

So I don't know what you're talking about...

Edited by feillyne, 18 November 2009 - 04:44 AM.

[Apollo]

Well... you could have fixed the infantry issue by altering their weapons warhead verses regards buildings rather low to achieve same with far less effort as you may not realize but most of the damage problems come from cellspread as damage is dealt by every cell calculation regardless of how big structure is on top which means the bigger foundation= the more it takes damage...

biggest building= the lowest verses it should have according to foundation.

Besides westwood's 100% verses are absurd in most of the warheads, personally i rewrote the whole damn system by new values.

[OmegaBolt]

It is relevant. You just spam this topic with your comments with no real knowledge about the mod, which makes your point... pointless.
500 bucks walls are slower to produce and you're pretty wasting time making them. Besides, in the final version, they'll be available as 2-tier walls.
Just when players get artillery units (2-tier units) and Soviets get Tesla Tanks, which as you o' Great Modder, know very well (well, you're a great modder, but not a Great Modder), can bypass the walls.
So? What's your point? Because you're too sissy to use aircraft to pound enemy that wastes time building $500 walls, which take a lot of time, which could be spent on building proper AA or other, base defenses?
It's only a beginning. To shield ConYard with such walls, you need some 2000 credits... there are many flaws of it.
Really, a rusher who doesn't want to use aircraft instead of trying to get through the walls, aircraft which is even cheaper in ASM.
Besides, walls are obstacles, they are for it.

So youve made walls even more pointless?

[Beowulf]

It is relevant. You just spam this topic with your comments with no real knowledge about the mod, which makes your point... pointless.

Valid criticism is not spam. Here you go again, dismissing perfectly valid points because I'm not fawning over everything you do.

500 bucks walls are slower to produce and you're pretty wasting time making them. Besides, in the final version, they'll be available as 2-tier walls.

Lovely, you made walls irrelevant even though they had practical uses, and that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the absurdity of increasing health and weapon damage to get around a minor warhead issue.

Just when players get artillery units (2-tier units) and Soviets get Tesla Tanks, which as you o' Great Modder, know very well (well, you're a great modder, but not a Great Modder), can bypass the walls.

Your point being?

So? What's your point? Because you're too sissy to use aircraft to pound enemy that wastes time building $500 walls, which take a lot of time, which could be spent on building proper AA or other, base defenses?

I do get aircraft, but it's a waste to build defenses online. You need tanks, and vehicles, for proper mixing. Defenses just waste valuable money.

It's only a beginning. To shield ConYard with such walls, you need some 2000 credits... there are many flaws of it.

This is not what walls are used for. They're used to block spies from getting into your structures. You've just eliminated passive protection for... well... everything.

Really, a rusher who doesn't want to use aircraft instead of trying to get through the walls, aircraft which is even cheaper in ASM.

You seriously don't know balance, do you? Noobs spam aircraft for structures; planes are meant to be anti-tank weapons to pick off vehicles instead of assault. Have you even played RA2 online against anyone with any skill? I'm betting not...

Besides, walls are obstacles, they are for it.

Exactly, and you made them worthless for even that.

ASM favours both turtles and rushers.

No, you favor turtlers. No way around it.

BALANCE. Justice. Rushing overpower off.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're so goddamn stupid it's amazing.

I destroyed whole AI base with about 4-7 Rhinos lately, in a matter of couple of minutes. Only.
So I don't know what you're talking about...

When you up the damage, of course it doesn't take long. But I hope you upped the armor of every unit in the game too otherwise tanks will make infantry obsolete.

[feillyne]

Well... you could have fixed the infantry issue by altering their weapons warhead verses regards buildings rather low to achieve same with far less effort as you may not realize but most of the damage problems come from cellspread as damage is dealt by every cell calculation regardless of how big structure is on top which means the bigger foundation= the more it takes damage...

biggest building= the lowest verses it should have according to foundation.

Besides westwood's 100% verses are absurd in most of the warheads, personally i rewrote the whole damn system by new values.

Yup, you're right, I did it, but I needed something more "realistic", that's why so many changes, and some 10-30% verses wouldn't suffice.
Hmm, AFAIK, not using the steel armor is absurd, too. Didn't see many buildings having that armor.

So youve made walls even more pointless?

+ two different walls:
* sandbags (...)
* regular walls (...)

Lovely, you made walls irrelevant even though they had practical uses, and that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the absurdity of increasing health and weapon damage to get around a minor warhead issue.

+ two different walls:
* sandbags (...)
* regular walls (...)

Besides, LOL, increasing hps and damage is a away to make a base for other things.

I do get aircraft, but it's a waste to build defenses online. You need tanks, and vehicles, for proper mixing. Defenses just waste valuable money.

Thanks. Turtling will be better now. ;->

This is not what walls are used for. They're used to block spies from getting into your structures. You've just eliminated passive protection for... well... everything.

Of course not! And walling ConYard b/c of engineers! You think I don't know that?! But walls will be more useful in ASM, and yes, for turtles. Not for rushers who try to win the game easy way.

Easy winners out.

Passive protection - you can do that, now with sh*tty sandbags $100 each. And you can use spies as vehicle thieves too, b/c they have this ability now. They're also cheaper.
First play the mod, then judge. -_-

You seriously don't know balance, do you? Noobs spam aircraft for structures; planes are meant to be anti-tank weapons to pick off vehicles instead of assault. Have you even played RA2 online against anyone with any skill? I'm betting not...

Your point?
You're teaching your grandmother to suck eggs, eh?

I played and I know that Allies must be balanced, as well as Yuri faction. They both are overpowered. Mirage Tank for $1000, WTF?! Prism Tank for $1400?! Tesla Tanks being a way weaker, and not stealthy like Mirages, are more expensive! F*cking ridiculous.

Exactly, and you made them worthless for even that.

Judge and you'll be judged. But the reality will remain as it is, regardless of your pointless and irrelevant judging.

No, you favor turtlers. No way around it.

OF COURSE!

Why? B/c everyone favours rushers!
So to balance things up one needs to favour turtles!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're so goddamn stupid it's amazing.

You know, everything you say without valid reasons returns to you. ^^

When you up the damage, of course it doesn't take long. But I hope you upped the armor of every unit in the game too otherwise tanks will make infantry obsolete.

^^
That's how talking to a person who doesn't know that infantry cost was halved, in most cases. ^^ GIs cost $100, Conscripts $50 (Zerg rush FTW! haha), and so on.
So technically tanks should make raw meat of infantry.

Besides, infantry (all infantry) will be able to garrison buildings, making the urban warfare difficult without them.

Edited by feillyne, 18 November 2009 - 05:34 PM.

[OmegaBolt]

+ two different walls:
* sandbags (...)
* regular walls (...)

Why would I build sandbags when I could build concrete walls? Walls cover exactly what sandbags cover, but better, making sandbags irrelevant.

[feillyne]

Why would I build sandbags when I could build concrete walls? Walls cover exactly what sandbags cover, but better, making sandbags irrelevant.

Because concrete walls are accessible only as a 2-tier base defense, so you can't build concrete walls, at least not at the beginning. And sandbags and concrete walls will be better anyway. Dark Templar X remembered me how aircraft rushers could take buildings out easily. So I make base defenses and buildings much stronger. = >

Edited by feillyne, 18 November 2009 - 05:40 PM.

[Beowulf]

Hmm, AFAIK, not using the steel armor is absurd, too. Didn't see many buildings having that armor.

Tech structures and defense structures, radar and then barracks, but it's absurd to use for anything but defenses, and there is a reason why that should hold true. Doubt you'd see it though.

Besides, LOL, increasing hps and damage is a away to make a base for other things.

It's a lazy, unobjective bandage for a bigger problem. You haven't really 'fixed' anything, just slapped duct tape over the top to fix an explosive leak.

Thanks. Turtling will be better now. ;->

And this is why your mod can never be taken seriously. Ever.

Of course not! And walling ConYard b/c of engineers! You think I don't know that?! But walls will be more useful in ASM, and yes, for turtles. Not for rushers who try to win the game easy way.

You don't wall to stop an Engineer rush. There are better, more cost effective ways to handle one such as paying attention or using low tier defenses to attack the engineers, or keeping units around/

Easy winners out.

You think rushing is easy? Holy shit. You have not played online before. I can tell just from this statement. Either that or you can't stop a quick rush, even though it's not that hard.

Passive protection - you can do that, now with sh*tty sandbags $100 each. And you can use spies as vehicle thieves too, b/c they have this ability now. They're also cheaper.

Fuck that. If people are supposed to just "ignore walls" like you say, what is the point in adding low tier passive defense? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

First play the mod, then judge. -_-

Just the changes put me off to even giving this a try. It will be a dull turtlefest. Enjoy your shitty mod.

Your point?

My point is quite simple. You don't understand the simple applications that some units have and think in terms of just how stupidly you use them. Put simply, you don't understand the real game in any fashion.

Judge and you'll be judged. But the reality will remain as it is, regardless of your pointless and irrelevant judging.

That's fine but don't expect everyone to take your project seriously. There's no reason to anymore, you're just raping good gameplay.

Why? B/c everyone favours rushers!
So to balance things up one needs to favour turtles!

Wrong, wrong, wrong. If you don't see why, that's not a surprise.

You know, everything you say without valid reasons returns to you. ^^

It's not invalid. You just don't get it.

That's how talking to a person who doesn't know that infantry cost was halved, in most cases. ^^ GIs cost $100, Conscripts $50 (Zerg rush FTW! haha), and so on.
So technically tanks should make raw meat of infantry.

And we come to this. The last of the gameplay killers. Lovely. You've effectively rendered fodder obsolete. Congrats. You fail.

[feillyne]

You're a f*cking droll troll, Beowulf. I won't give a damn about your comments anymore when you don't understand a good gameplay.

ASM will be more AoE2 like.

Age of Empires II battles last some 1-3 hours, depends on the skill of the players, and the number of them.

I played RA2 online. I played AoEII so many times, even if battles were 3-5 hours long and they didn't end, we just stopped to play b/c it was long after the midnight.

ASM will be like that.


Thanks, Beowulf. I'll make this mod even more turtle-favourable, thanks to your replies.
And you just convince me that I go in the right direction when you say you won't play the mod. "Easy rushers off". So thanks for giving me grounds.


Yes, rushing is easy.
In AoEII it is easy. But when you screw it, you lose it.

In RA2 too. I remember how I rushed 2 guys in first 3-5 minutes, using just Flak Tracks and Terrorists.
Two Allies... one was even playing France and had Grand Cannon... but he wasn't fast enough. -_-

It is easy and it will, unless I do something. And you, Beowulf or Dark Templar X, whoever you are, just make me favour turtles even more. ^^ Thanks.

I don't get it. Rushing is easy, rushing is fast, you can take your easy rushing up your *ss. There will be rushing, but it won't be so easy.

So. F*ck easy rushing, that's the point. Comment and I will make base defenses and turtling even easier.

Edited by feillyne, 18 November 2009 - 08:26 PM.

[Beowulf]

Fine, ignore everything I say because you suck at defending an early rush. That's great, favor people who can't grasp basic concepts like economy management, tank control and build order. However, you're only creating a noob mod, which completely reflects what you are - a pissant noob. You always will be one with your entirely dismissive attitude. Fuck off and join the rest of the knob jockeys who think they're gods of modding when they're not.

Your little modding crew here is a huge embarrassment to Revora.

I'm so glad I turned down your stupid ModDB invite too. I'd hate to be associated with you. You're the reason why RA2 modding blows.

[feillyne]

Fine, ignore everything I say because you suck at defending an early rush. That's great, favor people who can't grasp basic concepts like economy management, tank control and build order. However, you're only creating a noob mod, which completely reflects what you are - a pissant noob. You always will be one with your entirely dismissive attitude. Fuck off and join the rest of the knob jockeys who think they're gods of modding when they're not.

Your little modding crew here is a huge embarrassment to Revora.

I'm so glad I turned down your stupid ModDB invite too. I'd hate to be associated with you. You're the reason why RA2 modding blows.

One word: a flamer. You're nothing but a flamer.


Oh, suck at defending early rushes? I pointed it out: RUSHING is too easy. I have evidence, I had rushed people within first minutes. F*ck off with your pointless whining.

Oh, you can't rush now with all these upgraded base defenses around? Fine. It's very good. Easy rushing will be gone. RA2 modding doesn't blow. You're the reason why rushing is taken up so often and why it is so easy.


I didn't call you names, too. A "flamer", a "basher" aren't vulgar words. They just define what you are. You insulted me with your "a pissant noob". Noob = derogatory for "newbie". Don't think I leave it so easily.

Edited by feillyne, 18 November 2009 - 09:44 PM.

[Beowulf]

In the strictest sense of the word, not really. I am, however, quite direct. I save the pretty, flowery language for the customers and you get to eat my pent up anger after a day of tech calls.

And I have to reiterate, again, that rushing is not easy, nor simple. It is a very complex set of orders that, if done wrong, can lead to your own untimely demise. I'll say it again - rushing is not easy. Unless of course you're playing against a noob. Your actions speak volumes about your online experience and it seems to me like you were on the ass end of a well-timed attack on every game. If you're too stupid to have some counter-strategies, you deserve to lose. It's just that simple.

I can rush with base defenses around, since most won't be up til mid-game. But what you've gone and done because you're too stupid to realize that you effect more than one aspect with major gameplay changes is that people who don't rush but get a decent mixed attack force end up screwed because you made your mod tailored to players who are terrible at the game. Because of this, players will get frustrated after the first play and likely won't play it again, which is a good thing. But it's not like you'll have anyone playing this failing excuse of a mod in the first place.

No, I am not the reason why "rushing is taken up so early." Do you even know what a rush really is? Have you even played a somewhat competitive game? I have my doubts that you've even played a real game online let alone one that was semi-competitive. But, I have to say again, rushing is not easy and does not lead to an immediate victory.

Oh yes, RA2 modding today blows ass because of pissant turds like you rolling in with your "great ideas" and making a complete mockery of the game. Seriously, your "mod" is nothing but a mockery of everything the players have learned about mechanics and nuances of the game and vanilla maps.

I say it again, you're just a fucking noob.

[feillyne]

To be sincere.
I didn't play YR online! But I did play vanilla RA2, not once, not 5 times, but more.

Rushing is easy, just the ending of it if you don't succeed, is... well, hard. But rushing itself is easy, I said that many times already.
Rushing does lead to an immediate victory, in some cases you just need to finish off your opponent when he's weakened.


As I said, I have real online gaming experience only in AoEII. Played against my friend, very skilled one (and the best locally). He did rush me every time and I've lost every match except two. 1vs1.
Thanks to that, I could rush and counter-rush every single other opponent, b/c he taught me painful lessons. I don't remember failing except some two-five times from all matches (I can bet that the total amount will be about 100-200), against other players... which were experienced and were skilled too (also played with this same skilled friend).
I could even rush a friend, which is one of the best players in C&C: Generals and HoMMIII, who could tackle that friend of mine, he could destroy and win with him, but my forward rushes couldn't endure... even if I'm so sucky n00b when playing with that friend which taught how to defend and rush myself (you wouldn't want to be one of these two poor guys who get rushed by him doing scout rush and me doing castle rush almost simultaneosly when we were both in the same team).

RA2 - I have less experience, yes, but I have played it a few times, rushed, got rushed, played normally a bit.

I did know what rushes are about. And I know that AoEII can't be ended in 10 minutes, except you'd Town Center Rush (which I discovered for myself).
Rushes are possible only after some 12-15 minutes, and they don't give a victory, they're preparing grounds for finishing off your opponent.

So screw you. ASM won't be that easy, as easy as RA2/RA2:YR is.
And if somebody's n00b, it's you who doesn't have real knowledge or experience in various strategies. You can be a master in RA2, but you'd a n00b in other games.

(Also RA3, but it isn't relevant. Some 200 matches, 58% won, but it was only 2vs2 battles. Don't believe?
http://portal.comman.....=CNC:feillyne 257 matches 2vs2
2vs2 <- Yes, I'm a n00b. At least I do know what's rushing, that's why turtling will be better and easier.)

Mods and games are for turtles and beginning players, too. All must be fair. And it will be.

And if you don't like it, you can play in the gamemode Where Base Defenses Aren't. Nobody will waste his money.

Edited by feillyne, 18 November 2009 - 10:59 PM.

[MT]

So you increase both damage and hitpoints of everything (if otherwise, please state so. the OP was not very specific with this) by 10. Besides problems you ca fix through warheads, this doesn't make too much of a productive difference.

+ two different walls:
* sandbags, cost $100, "wood" (light) type of armor, light protection
* regular walls were strengthened a bit, but they cost $500 now

Not much to say, hopefully this will make walls actually useful, although I don't see the point of sandbags other than decoration, and please do explain what will stop players from walling everything useful and just spam aircraft/artys/base defences. Not to be critical, but a few reasons wouldn't hurt

Edited by MT, 18 November 2009 - 11:11 PM.

[feillyne]

So you increase both damage and hitpoints of everything (if otherwise, please state so. the OP was not very specific with this) by 10. Besides problems you ca fix through warheads, this doesn't make too much of a productive difference.

Yup, everything.

Well, I tried to fix it with warheads, it actually didn't help.
Well, it does make, and it gives an opportunity to set stats (damage/hps) at more detailed level. ;-)

Not much to say, hopefully this will make walls actually useful, although I don't see the point of sandbags other than decoration, and please do explain what will stop players from walling everything useful and just spam aircraft/artys/base defences. Not to be critical, but a few reasons wouldn't hurt

Hmm, a lack of money can be painful, then naval warfare requires some more attention too. One can't be everywhere at the same time, so there will be always a dilemma whether to start a land rush, turtling on land, sea turtling (with naval bases), or just build shipyad/subpen and rush with subs/ships an opponent, which has already gone naval.

If somebody turtles, there are many ways to get along better. One can expand and flourish by taking the rest of the map and preventing the turtling opponent from getting any additional resources, and making an army strong enough to take out the turtler's base - late in the game. Also rushing his miners when he isn't prepared can get turtling player making artys/aircraft/base defences much slowed down to the point of his defeat - sooner or later.

Tanks have faster ROF, so rushing can be even easier if somebody's good at micro.