Jump to content


Photo

Umbar Map


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#41 Masterbadeend

Masterbadeend

    Yellow_Pete

  • Project Team
  • 797 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Projects:RCMOD
  •  Mapper @ the RCMOD

Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:01 PM

You should concentrate on the positive points too, Crusard, not only on the negative parts :).

Posted Image
Posted Image
Thanks to MirkwoordArcher for this great signature and the lovely duck.
Posted Image


#42 Crusard

Crusard

    Local n00b

  • Project Team
  • 483 posts
  • Location:Buenos Aires, Argentina
  • Projects:Crusard's Tower Defense
  •  Poor feedback kills mapper.

Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:37 PM

I was hoping someone else could take a look at his map and make another, less technical review :)
But you know me. I'm just evil.

Posted Image


#43 Scryer

Scryer

    title available

  • Project Team
  • 565 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:18 PM

Thanks Crusard for your honest criticism. By the way, when I ask for criticism, I am looking for no-bullshit answers. I'll reply to your response in more depth later... I'm a bit sick and need some rest :lol: .
Posted Image
Posted Image

#44 Crusard

Crusard

    Local n00b

  • Project Team
  • 483 posts
  • Location:Buenos Aires, Argentina
  • Projects:Crusard's Tower Defense
  •  Poor feedback kills mapper.

Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:56 AM

I've edited the post to add a couple of suggestions you might find useful. It was very evil as it was :lol:
Hope you get better btw ^^

Posted Image


#45 Scryer

Scryer

    title available

  • Project Team
  • 565 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 08 March 2010 - 03:25 AM

I've edited the post to add a couple of suggestions you might find useful. It was very evil as it was :p
Hope you get better btw ^^



Thanks I'm better now minus the fact that I went through a couple of mid-terms :D .

I have decided that my map is way too small for all of my intentions. I have decided that I want to restart completely in order to make it at least 3 times larger and make the Ocean even deeper. I'll work on it again around April (which is when school ends for me).


The terrain was way too plain. Really nothing going on, just the small mountain chains that separate each player. Try making some hills, heighten the mountain to make less regular "height jumps".


If anything, I would like the southern part fairly flat.... Maybe with the western part (of the southern land) at a lower elevation than the eastern/city part. Like it would go from the east and slope down to the west (which has the landing beach). The city part and the harbour island have to be flat, in my opinion.

The northern piece of land could definitely afford to be more hilly (not a word) and possibly have a river/creek as well.


The textures don't look very good... there just doesn't seem to be much cohesion. It looks like a bunch of different textures mixed together throughout the map. The blool level is a bit excessive. There's quite a few unblended sqares too. You should make a smaller selection of textures and give it a smoother use. Check EA maps texturing to see how they have more defined places such as dirt paths, shrub areas, rocky terrain, etc. using a single (two tops) texture for each terrain type.


I do agree that I need to look back on some of the EA maps to get a better idea with what they do with their textures. But they don't have a map that is located in the type of environment that I want my map to be located in... Which is a tropical coast. Whatever, this is for me to deal with so I just won't whine about it :crazed: . I'll just have to look at several EA maps.

I like some of the textures that I had with my map though.... So I'm thinking that I'll just cut down on some of them. For example, when I redo my map, I don't think that I'll use any of the Rhunic Sands except for the ocean floor. I'll also be cutting down on some of my desert textures as well.... I think that I messed up the basic desert textures when I was doing pathways with other desert textures :p . Yes there are paths in my map ;) . So I don't think that I'll do any pathways next round.


The Umbar fortress could use some work as well (it looks too much like BFME1's MotW fortress). The catapults are out of place and have this strange light flicker that looks glitchy. The catapults don't have owner (the walls neither) so you can't destroy them. The main gate is nearly inaccessible, add some more space in front of it.
Beach landing spots are limited to ONE for each player, making it IMPOSSIBLE to land if the enemy has (wisely) placed anything but a single garrisoned tower in them.


Considering that I wanted the fortress round, walkable walls, and matching catapults/trebuchets; that only left me with the Gondorian set of structures to work with. And the game also doesn't come with WB that has walls outside of Rohan, Gondor, etc that could be viewed as "neutral" iirc. I have no skill with reskinning structures in WB and I can't exactly find a site that I trust to download reskins, so that definitely left me with the Gondorian walls. If I could reskin them I would because I totally agree that it looks way too Gondorian. I think that in my next attempt, I will use the Cirith Ungol walls without any mounted Trebuchets, and without making it a round city.

It's strange that you mentioned that the walls and catapults don't have owners because I did assign them to players and such. It's been a while so I can't recall the details but I know that I could always control the catapults and such.

Yes. I'm not sure at all as to what that flickering is. Like I tried hiding it with the trebuchets, I've tried all sorts of stuff (that I've forgotten :p) to try and get rid of it. That flickering is freaky and weird. I don't think that I will use trebuchets in my next attempt. This being one of the reasons.

The main gate is suppose to be a little annoying to get to.... It's my intended effect in order to have the assaulting players consider Naval combat more than a terrestial siege. Looking back, I do agree that it was exaggerated a little too much in my map. But it is suppose to have that kind of a nuisance effect for the assaulting players.



Beach landing spots are limited to ONE for each player, making it IMPOSSIBLE to land if the enemy has (wisely) placed anything but a single garrisoned tower in them. This made my multiplayer game to stall fast and get boring quickly. Always make sure there's room for different tactics in your maps.


I definitely see where you're comming from. In my next attempt I will definitely create more beach landings for both the northern and southern pieces of land.



The eyecandy needs to be improved...


I kind of agree... The southern part is meant to go into Far Harad (a little bit) so I want to keep that part more barren. I think that the only part that I would re-consider more is the beach.

The city definitely needs a ton of more work done on it, starting with the walls!

And the Northern part is the only section of the map, that I can think of, that could use a lot more eyecandy.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#46 _Haldir_

_Haldir_

    Mapper

  • Project Team
  • 1,203 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Projects:The Dwarf Holds, The Elven Alliance: Community Edition
  •  T3A Team Chamber Member

Posted 08 March 2010 - 06:03 AM

I haven't really been following this much for a while, but restarting is never a bad decision.

Be careful with your size though, 3 times larger is excessively huge. For a 3 player map, you probably wouldn't want to go much bigger than 400x400. Large maps mean long marches, more terrain/texturing/prop work and more lag. Instead, utilise your space, rather than increasing it too much :crazed: For example, you might find that you have too much water on your map. You can give the feel of a wide ocean, without covering half your map with it.

As far as terrain, you'll have to keep it mostly flat for buildings (another reason i don't like BFME 2). Also, i wouldn't add a creek/river just for the sake of it. Think whether your place in Umbar would have a river :p

BFME2 has quite a few coastal/tropical maps. Think Grey Havens, Umbar, Celduin, Forlindon, Harlindon, Rhun, Harad...
Generally with textures, more is better. As long as they blend well. Rather than cutting down on textures, try swapping textures around and mixing them together more. There's a couple of texturing methods in my tutorial, which might help you :p

The flickering is probably one of the Gondor walls you're using. A couple of them - like the one that's a \____/ shape - have a pink missing piece that flickers in game. You can hide it if you place big/thick enough props in front of it. Try altering the damage % of the gondor walls, to give it a more ruined look. I'd probably steer away from Cirith Ungol stuff.

Eye-candy will just happen if you sort out your textures and props. There's no real way to learn, you just need to have an eye for placing trees, rocks, shrubs and any man-made ruins. Again, have a look at some of the tutorials if you find yourself struggling :D

Posted Image Posted Image


#47 Scryer

Scryer

    title available

  • Project Team
  • 565 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 08 March 2010 - 06:53 AM

Be careful with your size though, 3 times larger is excessively huge. For a 3 player map, you probably wouldn't want to go much bigger than 400x400. Large maps mean long marches, more terrain/texturing/prop work and more lag. Instead, utilise your space, rather than increasing it too much For example, you might find that you have too much water on your map. You can give the feel of a wide ocean, without covering half your map with it.


Crusard is right that it is very squishy. The way I see it is easier to make the map smaller (if it's too large) than it is to make the map bigger... Plus I won't have to go through that painful re-texturing process.


As far as terrain, you'll have to keep it mostly flat for buildings (another reason i don't like BFME 2). Also, i wouldn't add a creek/river just for the sake of it. Think whether your place in Umbar would have a river


I actually have a couple of ideas to incorporate my creek/stream idea in my map. No way would I just add it in for the sake of it :p . I'm too smart for that :crazed: . (JK)


Think Grey Havens, Umbar, Celduin, Forlindon, Harlindon, Rhun, Harad...


I've got to look into Harlindon and Forlindon.. Umbar is not a tropical coast; I despise that map for not taking advantage of its location and it is the main drive of me doing this new Umbar map. It's a sad excuse in my opinion. But I will take another gander at the maps that you recommended :D .

I have (well today) quickly skimmed over your tutorial and it looks like that it might just be my new bible if I get back into doing Umbar.


Try altering the damage % of the gondor walls, to give it a more ruined look.


Cool! I did not know that I could do that... It wouldn't alter the health of the wall, will it? Just the appearance? And it would just be with the object properties?
Posted Image
Posted Image

#48 _Haldir_

_Haldir_

    Mapper

  • Project Team
  • 1,203 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Projects:The Dwarf Holds, The Elven Alliance: Community Edition
  •  T3A Team Chamber Member

Posted 08 March 2010 - 09:27 AM

Oh, i was under the impression the walls weren't player controlled. Yeah in the object properties, and it will lower the initial health of the wall. You could make them indestructible, on the civilian team, and then just give the gate and defences to the umbar player. The walls will still be walkable that way, but not attackable. Not totally unrealistic, considering that the walls would be Numenorean, and thus very strong.

But yeah, if you want attackers to be able to attack the walls, then you'll probably just have to settle for a gondor look :D

Posted Image Posted Image





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users